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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 26, 2006 12:21:26 GMT 3
Who were the Black Tatars?
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Post by Atabeg on Jul 26, 2006 17:33:09 GMT 3
Tatars who were black clothes nah arent that the tatrs who lived in asia the non krim tatars
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Post by tengrikut on Jul 26, 2006 21:53:18 GMT 3
Tatars who were black clothes nah arent that the tatrs who lived in asia the non krim tatars i am a full black tatar then ;D |
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Post by Atabeg on Jul 26, 2006 22:42:02 GMT 3
congrats bro
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Jul 26, 2006 23:24:51 GMT 3
Didn't Chinggis Khaan kill all of them?
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Post by tengrikut on Jul 27, 2006 15:15:31 GMT 3
Didn't Chinggis Khaan kill all of them? i think no. bec his first wife was a black tatar. thats just i know. |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 27, 2006 21:15:57 GMT 3
12th century Chinese had named three different peoples with thename Tatar. One was called White Tatar, the other was Black Tatar and the other one was Wild Tatar.
IIRC the White Tatars were the same with the Öñgüt Turks; Black Tatars were the real Tatar people (the one destroyed by Temüjin Khan) and the Wild Tatars were the Mongghol people; but I also have something remaining in my mind, saying that the White Tatars were the real Tatars, the Black Tatars were the Mongghols and the Wild Tatars were some of the "Forest Peoples". Which one is true?
And do the Black Tatars of late-14th century Anatolia have anything to do with the Black Tatars of 12th century Eastern Mongolia? Or is that just a name coincidence? If yes, can we suggest that the 14th-century Anatolian Black Tatars were a group of people who were not under the rule of the "Tatar" (Mongols were called Tatars by the Western Asians and Europeans back then) Imperial Family (descendents of Chinggis Khan)?
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Jul 27, 2006 23:42:38 GMT 3
Didn't Chinggis Khaan kill all of them? i think no. bec his first wife was a black tatar. thats just i know. well, Ithink she is an Ongirat, Are Ongirats black Tatars? Tigin this one is true... I have read sth like this... |
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Post by snafu on Jul 28, 2006 6:49:15 GMT 3
The White and black Tatars were the tribes the Chinese had ongoing relations with. The white tribes were the ones who lived close to China like the Ongguts, Ongirats, and Tatars. The black tribes were the ones who lived deeper into Mongolia but were still Chinese vassals like the Naimans, Keraits, Khirgiz and Mongols. The wild tribes were the ones the Chinese had minimal contact with like the Merkits.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 28, 2006 23:41:33 GMT 3
Thank you snafu.
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Post by Bor Chono on Jul 31, 2006 10:51:14 GMT 3
Tribes witch lived in north of china were called Tatars. (Chinese would call all Mongols as Tatars) Some say they were Mongols but real-Mongols(3 river ppl) had many wars with Tatars. Hamnigans(=Zurchin/Manchu) are called Tatar by Mongols. I heard that during Turk Empire they were called Dadani!?  One more thing, In Mongolia men is called "Har Hun"="Black human" BUT real-Mongols never been called as Black -maybe Brown="Bor"(-poor ppl & common countryside ppl are called Brown -I think beacause of skin color). We also have place called "Brown Steppe of Borjigin (tribe)".  |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 31, 2006 18:14:11 GMT 3
Indeed there was a people called Tatabï mentioned in the Orkhon Inscriptions but they are always mentioned together with the Kitans so scholars think they probably were the same with the Xi people mentioned in the Chinese sources.
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Post by Saran on Aug 11, 2006 5:07:40 GMT 3
There're lost of confusions about the Tatars. I know that there was a tribe called Tatar, who poisoned Temujin's father and later Chinggis took a big revenge killing everyone who was above 3 years of age! The Russians also used to call us Tatars. But Tatars and Mongols are different. Tatars should be from Turkic origin or something. Any info on the Tatars are welcome 
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Post by Atabeg on Aug 11, 2006 17:41:15 GMT 3
There're lost of confusions about the Tatars. I know that there was a tribe called Tatar, who poisoned Temujin's father and later Chinggis took a big revenge killing everyone who was above 3 years of age! The Russians also used to call us Tatars. But Tatars and Mongols are different. Tatars should be from Turkic origin or something. Any info on the Tatars are welcome yes tatars are from teh turkic stock my mothers best friend is half tatar she look more like a mongolian but not quiet |
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Aug 11, 2006 21:14:50 GMT 3
Today's Tatars and old days' Tatars are not the same...
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