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Post by Temüjin on May 26, 2007 20:02:27 GMT 3
Turkey has a population of around 70 million, thats more than France, imagine it would be equal member, that means Turkey would be second only to Germany in Europe. many people are afraid of this and i think especially France is afraid losing influence and importance within the union.
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Post by nisse on May 26, 2007 20:04:51 GMT 3
the french are always power hungray, they want more power then they can handle,
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2007 17:00:34 GMT 3
I have a question if The was a CA union and you would be the architect or Leader what ould you do? If I was the leader I'd definetly work on the relationship between the ethnic groups within the union. Most of them are Turks and have been living together for who knows how long. After that then I'd try to spread business around the union and try to better the economy, because we all know some of those nations desperatly need something done.
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Post by nisse on May 27, 2007 20:48:39 GMT 3
I´would start it by declaring a union built on free transport of oil and gas, then many countries like azerbaijan, turkmenistan and kazakstan would come together and build an union. later it would develop reforms such as single market and over things, THen the rest of the turkic countries would understadn the value of the union and join, the final step would be a federativ turkestan, with its own currency
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Post by tangriberdi on Jun 3, 2007 19:37:17 GMT 3
Those who support eu integration of Turkey forget Turkish national Motto: Egemenlik Kayýtsýz Þartsýz Milletindir. If, Egemenlik Milletindir, how can you think to share your sovereignty(egemenlik) with EU. Ataturk never wanted integration into EU. He rescued and saved our vatan.. The only way for Turkey is to turn her face to her roots, id est Turkestani countries. In order to do that, Turkey should stop Kurdicization of Anatolia, give independence to Kurds with the borders granted by Turkey, and then should unite with TRNC(Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus and Azerbaijan.Turkey should be active in Karabagh problem of Azerbaijan, Karabagh can be left for Armenia with a corridor between Karabagh and Armenia through Lachin. But in contrast, when Turkey united with Azerbaijan, Zengezur (former Azerbaijani territory between Nakhchevan and Azerbaijan proper) should be returned to Azerbaijan , so territorial integration TRNC Turkey and Azerbaijan completed. And then we can look for a union with Central Asia.
I am repeating, before getting rid of increasing Kurdish population in Turkey, there will never be a day of peace for Anatolian Turks. And dreaming about united Turkic states before geting rid of Kurds and providing an uninterrupted territorial continuation between the Turkic states aforementioned is just useless dreams.
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Post by aykurt on Jun 15, 2007 19:58:27 GMT 3
I have alot of admiration for Nazarbayev. He has handle the ethnic balance in Kazakstan well, particularly with the large Russian minority. He has also developed his country more than any other CA state. Also he has called himself a Turk too.
I think the Union he is calling for is a geographic union, however, its a political union based on geography, a geography that is overwhelmingly Turkic. So it will be a Turkic union. If he was to outright call fora Turkic union, not only would he be opposed by the local dicatators unwilling to give up their powers, but also Russia, China and Iran would oppose it fearful of their own Turkic minorities becoming restless as a result. So its smart not to refer to the political union on ethnic terms. I think Azerbaijan should also be included into the union too. The combined Oil and gas energy would not only fuel the whole region for development, but give them more importance and clout internationally, perhaps more so than the middle east. But a warning:
Middle East.
Enough said. I believe Nazarbayev though isnt as stupid and selfish to let a CA Union turn out like the middle east. So all good.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2007 12:48:21 GMT 3
If what you say is true, which is very possible, Azerbaijan joining the "Central Asian Union" would make others suspicious and possibly figure out it really is a Turk Union. Because Azerbaijan isn't in Central Asia.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 16, 2007 23:45:07 GMT 3
Yea, it's in Southern Caucasia.
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Post by 2023travel2endless on Jun 26, 2007 13:30:44 GMT 3
why wont it fit, are you saying that central asian people are stupid to deserve to live under dictators, well of course you dont want to see a demcorcy develop in central asia then you would not buy cheap gas and oil from them right I hate democracy even in my own country. Democracy is pure nuts and it fits only to small countries (San marino for example) or countries where is democratic traditions (UK, France). Why not taking inspiration from Turkish experience? Here's a clear & knowledgeable article on this: www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=27574-------------------------------
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Post by naaya on Jul 22, 2007 20:00:42 GMT 3
Yes, the Mongols are still hated in the Middle East, especially in the Arabic countries. and why so...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 26, 2007 18:06:50 GMT 3
Because of the Mongol conquests in the Islamic lands (Transoxiana, Khorâsân, the rest of Iran, Iraq, Syria and Anatolia).
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Post by Atabeg on Aug 2, 2007 21:39:39 GMT 3
I was on this forum wich has not much to do with history or politics but they were talking about and Altaic union. They were Talking about Japan Korea and Kazakhistan.
I gave my personaly view of the matter I will post it here and would like for some of you to corrected when needed. + we can discuss it ^^.
this is original post so didn't change anything.
Accualy Central Asian union is or was planned as
Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Turkmenistan.
I never heard about Including Mongolia.
The Turkish President in the 90's Turgut Özal (R.I.P) wanted an union between all the Turkic nations Turkey, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. This was going to be the union I also heard some rumours about inviting Mongolian but when the union was established and was a success. We never could find out due to 2 reasons.
1. The CA countries just left the USSR. These countries were undergoing an internal identity crisis(so was Mongolia). Due 2 a century of Russian rule of the region. The people got Russiafied in some extend. The fact that the Russians communists whipped out all the scholars, scientists, poets and artist didn't help either. These countries were trying to find There cultural identity. Turkey came over to strong when it offered to take on a dominant role as leader and would take care of all the 'work'(organisation). Most of the CA states were going to agree with the proposal because they couldn't think of anything better and they were all looking up to there 'Big brother' Turkey.
But President Nazarbayev(President of Kazakhistan) even though he wasn't the important figure he is today he had the guts to tell President Ozal. That the CA countries just left and union and that they were trying to stand on there own 2 feet, that they were searching for there own identity. And all the other CA states joined President Nazarbayev in his decision.
2. Turgut Özal a know pro Turanist (even though he was of partially Kurdish descent does the English Wikipedia claim) and successful politician. This combination wasn't liked by some groups. On June 18, 1988 he survived an assassination attempt during the party congress. He was wounded on his finger while another bullet missed his head. The assassin was captured and sentenced to life in prison and later pardoned by Özal. On April 17, 1993, Özal died of a sudden heart attack while he was still president.
The fact that the President had really died due to an heart attack is still an issue amongst his followers and the old Turkish males who love to talk only about politics.
An Altaic Union or The Altaic Bloc(ooohhh almost sounds evil muhahaha –laugh)
Is a bit far fetched for in the near future. How ever there getting in the right direction. I have heard about a Central Asian union. President Nazarbayev had invited all the CA Presidents for a summit in Astana. I think there getting there in 10-15 years they will have an union.(Nothing close to the EU but I think in time the CA union would be way better and efficient that the EU but only time can tell)
I think the Altaic Bloc can be reached true several smaller unions or blocs. I think 3 Blocs would be sufficient. Of the 3 are already forming as we speak. Slowly but steady.
1. The Central Asian Union : Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. (mostly likely with Kazakhstan as its leader) 2. The Southern Caucasus Union: Turkey, Georgia and Azerbaijan. (most likely with Turkey as its leader). Even tough Georgia has nothing to do with Altaic they are vital for the relations between Turkey and Azerbaijan. This relationship has started due to Armenia. The next few lines might seem harsh to some of our members but aren’t less true.
Turkey and Azerbaijan have no shared borders. But there is a small state called Nakhchivan. This is a small state witch is Azerbaijani land but it’d separated from the rest of Azerbaijan by not more than 50 kilometres of desert. This has happened due to the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict in the 90’s were the Armenians occupied the region(Armenian did this because they wanted a shared border with the only nation in the region that had ‘relations’ with Armenian and that country is Iran). This conflict is still going on. So Turkey and Azerbaijan directed there attention to Georgia. There is already a Kars-Tiflis-Baku pipeline. Witch brings oil/gas from Azerbaijan to Turkey. There are also plans for a railway. By doing so Armenian is being completely by passed.
3. The East Altaic Bloc or Union : Japan, Korea and Mongolia How or if this union would come I don’t know. Maybe other members have a better view of this. I would like to find out my self.
4. Siberian Bloc or North Altaic union. This is more a if in case or when scenario. When Siberia or if Siberia could become independent. They could form an union. Lets not forget that there Altaic two.
The first 2 are forming as we speak I would like to see the 3rd to form soon. But Have doubts about the date of the 4th to be honest. I am thinking of a full Altaic union in 50-60 Years.
A. The Central Asian Union : in 20-25 years B. The Southern Caucasus Union: in 20-25 years C. The East Altaic Bloc or Union: In the next 40 years D. Siberian Bloc or North Altaic union: date ?
ALTAIC UNION IN 2065 Is the goal. Sooner isn’t always better
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 3, 2007 1:24:39 GMT 3
Nice post, but you should correct some grammar mistakes Oh and I can not imagine Korea and Japan in a union (yet alone even I can not imagine the two Koreans uniting).
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Post by Atabeg on Aug 3, 2007 16:57:05 GMT 3
yeah I know just typed that in fast reply realy fast so didn't read it over ;D
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2007 14:37:27 GMT 3
"But President Nazarbayev(President of Kazakhistan) even though he wasn't the important figure he is today he had the guts to tell President Ozal. That the CA countries just left and union and that they were trying to stand on there own 2 feet, that they were searching for there own identity. And all the other CA states joined President Nazarbayev in his decision."
-I think Kazakistan made the right choice. They just got their independence,, they need to grow on their own and learn on their own. If they joined a union right away then they'd have no experience in running a nation. Then they'd basically be controlled by the stronger nation, in this case Turkey. In a union everything needs to be equal.
"An Altaic Union or The Altaic Bloc(ooohhh almost sounds evil muhahaha –laugh)
Is a bit far fetched for in the near future. How ever there getting in the right direction."
-I agree, the first steps are being made and they're doing everything slowly and cautiously. This is much better than rushing into things and making a lot of mistakes.
"The East Altaic Bloc or Union : Japan, Korea and Mongolia How or if this union would come I don’t know. Maybe other members have a better view of this. I would like to find out my self."
-I don't think this would happen. There are many Pan-Turanists in Mongolia and even Korea and Japan but not enough in politics. I have more hope for Mongolia joining the union but not Korea and Japan. But after these unions are founded, including Mongolia, then maybe Korea and Japan may move towards this as well. But I don't see it happening.
"Siberian Bloc or North Altaic union. This is more a if in case or when scenario. When Siberia or if Siberia could become independent. They could form an union. Lets not forget that there Altaic two."
-This is possible if they become independent, and I'd put Mongolia into this union rather than the Mongolia-Korea-Japan Union since they are connected to Siberia through South Siberia. But I feel that China has it's eye on Siberia. Once they get loose from Russian China may take it. We'll just have to wait and see.
"I am thinking of a full Altaic union in 50-60 Years."
-A full Altaic Union? I'd say around 100yrs., maybe a little less. I'd say that a full Turk Union, which includes the independent Turk nations, could be founded in 50-60yrs.
"A. The Central Asian Union : in 20-25 years B. The Southern Caucasus Union: in 20-25 years C. The East Altaic Bloc or Union: In the next 40 years D. Siberian Bloc or North Altaic union: date ?"
-I agree with these estimates except for C.
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