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Post by Bor Chono on Mar 7, 2007 4:46:09 GMT 3
Hey Tigin, really appreciate your welcoming. Splendid idea setting up a forum like this. Don't know too much outside of Mongolian history, but will gladly try and contribute once in a while. So... Why don`t U introduce yourself in "Introduce yourself" page!
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Mar 7, 2007 8:26:25 GMT 3
Hey Tigin, really appreciate your welcoming. Splendid idea setting up a forum like this. Don't know too much outside of Mongolian history, but will gladly try and contribute once in a while. Thank you.
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txt
Är
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Post by txt on May 4, 2007 18:02:40 GMT 3
maybe when Communism in Chian collapses, there is a chance that Mongolia can reclaim southern Mongolia. you know, historically, Chinese dynasties aren't really stable and Chinese are easily prone to rebellion...nothing is impossible! about Buryats in Russia... maybe if Mongolia is wealthy enough they can buy it back like Alaska, afterall the area hasn't much ressources to speak of, but unfortunately the Trans-siberian railroad goes directly to the territory so it is of strategic importance to the Russians. Do you know how many people in Outer Mongolia and Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region of China. Outer Mongolian 2,800,000 (Mostly Mongol) Inner Mongolia - 18,000,000 (Han Chinese), 500,000 -700,000 (Manchus and Hui, Chinese-speaking races), 5,000,000 (Mongol) Many Mongol have intermarriage with Han Chinese and Manchus, they are hybrid, but most of these hybrid still choose Mongol identity becasue of minority benefit policy, they use Chinese surnames speak Mandarin only. (75% of Mongol in IM are fully sinicized) It means that pro-China IM guy : pro-Mongolia IM guy = 23 : 2 It is probable that Mongolia is re-incorporated to China if Mongolian want to claim IM. Also, most Buryat Russian (Mongolian origin) have less feeling of being Mongol.
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Post by nisse on May 4, 2007 19:08:07 GMT 3
correct me if I am wrong but arent mongols only living in mongolia
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Post by balamir on May 4, 2007 19:17:33 GMT 3
No.
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Post by nisse on May 4, 2007 19:27:18 GMT 3
"no"
what no, do you mean that there are living mongols outside mongolia, in which countries except china, are they spread thourgh out great areas like the turks are in central asia
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Post by Atabeg on May 4, 2007 19:43:21 GMT 3
Accualy they do and don't
If you mean by whole communities I only know about the Hazaras living in Afganistan and Various Tribes living in Russia & siberia like Buryats & Kalmyks
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Post by nisse on May 4, 2007 19:56:56 GMT 3
ok , but the buyrats and kalmyks how big population do they have , I dont think the reach even a million
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Post by balamir on May 4, 2007 20:07:06 GMT 3
Accualy they do and don't If you mean by whole communities I only know about the Hazaras living in Afganistan and Various Tribes living in Russia & siberia like Buryats & Kalmyks Hazaras are not Mongols,they are Turco-Mongolic
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Post by Atabeg on May 4, 2007 20:10:45 GMT 3
as you said there population is small 174 roughly in russia (kalmyks are called oirats in mongolia)
Buryats 500 000 strong
the Hazaras are living in Afganistan, Pakistan & Iran
2.8 million in Afganistan 300 000 Iran 600 000 Pakistan
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Post by Atabeg on May 4, 2007 20:13:14 GMT 3
yeah yeah Balamir I know about the uigurs who settled there before the mongol invasion
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Post by nisse on May 4, 2007 20:21:15 GMT 3
"the Hazaras are living in Afganistan, Pakistan & Iran
2.8 million in Afganistan 300 000 Iran 600 000 Pakistan"
the hazars arent mongol, they have lsot their mongol identitty they dont speak mongol they dont dress mongol, they dont have a mongol culture, thre have become persianzied
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Post by kokturk on May 4, 2007 22:53:08 GMT 3
In fact, Hazaras are Turko-Mongol people speaking Persian. AFAIK they do not claim to be Persian and I think there are not that much Hazaras in Afganistân because Taleban massacred them.
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Post by Temüjin on May 4, 2007 22:55:04 GMT 3
maybe when Communism in Chian collapses, there is a chance that Mongolia can reclaim southern Mongolia. you know, historically, Chinese dynasties aren't really stable and Chinese are easily prone to rebellion...nothing is impossible! about Buryats in Russia... maybe if Mongolia is wealthy enough they can buy it back like Alaska, afterall the area hasn't much ressources to speak of, but unfortunately the Trans-siberian railroad goes directly to the territory so it is of strategic importance to the Russians. Do you know how many people in Outer Mongolia and Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region of China. Outer Mongolian 2,800,000 (Mostly Mongol) Inner Mongolia - 18,000,000 (Han Chinese), 500,000 -700,000 (Manchus and Hui, Chinese-speaking races), 5,000,000 (Mongol) Many Mongol have intermarriage with Han Chinese and Manchus, they are hybrid, but most of these hybrid still choose Mongol identity becasue of minority benefit policy, they use Chinese surnames speak Mandarin only. (75% of Mongol in IM are fully sinicized) It means that pro-China IM guy : pro-Mongolia IM guy = 23 : 2 It is probable that Mongolia is re-incorporated to China if Mongolian want to claim IM. Also, most Buryat Russian (Mongolian origin) have less feeling of being Mongol. i don't care about numbers, my point is still valid, China is a weak country, Mongolia used to be part of China but not longer. those Han people will then be a minority in greater Mongolia, or they will leave the country as i assume the Han have no business left in the Steppe.
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txt
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Post by txt on May 5, 2007 2:34:03 GMT 3
Do you know how many people in Outer Mongolia and Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region of China. Outer Mongolian 2,800,000 (Mostly Mongol) Inner Mongolia - 18,000,000 (Han Chinese), 500,000 -700,000 (Manchus and Hui, Chinese-speaking races), 5,000,000 (Mongol) Many Mongol have intermarriage with Han Chinese and Manchus, they are hybrid, but most of these hybrid still choose Mongol identity becasue of minority benefit policy, they use Chinese surnames speak Mandarin only. (75% of Mongol in IM are fully sinicized) It means that pro-China IM guy : pro-Mongolia IM guy = 23 : 2 It is probable that Mongolia is re-incorporated to China if Mongolian want to claim IM. Also, most Buryat Russian (Mongolian origin) have less feeling of being Mongol. i don't care about numbers, my point is still valid, China is a weak country, Mongolia used to be part of China but not longer. those Han people will then be a minority in greater Mongolia, or they will leave the country as i assume the Han have no business left in the Steppe. Population of Mongol has dropped down rapidly during Qing Dynasty. Population is a decisive reason for sovereignty. (China vs Mongolia = 1300M vs 2.8M), it is impossible that Mongolia win China. I tell you that most of Han Chinese have Mongol blood (Since much more Han Chinese were killed in Yuan Dynasty, present northern Han Chinese are offspring of Intermarriage of Han Chinese and Mongol). But they are completely sinicitized. Also, there is rumour that Kazakhstan wants to merge with Mongolia to form a greater Central Asian states, but both Russia and China must object to this idea. Geopolitics decides that Mongolia must keep good relationship with both Russia and China.
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