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Post by hjernespiser on Apr 18, 2011 19:36:04 GMT 3
But I think politically they were separate.
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Post by hjernespiser on Apr 20, 2011 8:56:23 GMT 3
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 20, 2011 14:49:35 GMT 3
Thanx
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kokotoy
Är
From: Ural-Altaic Researchers Group
Posts: 5
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Post by kokotoy on Apr 22, 2011 1:30:13 GMT 3
But I think politically they were separate. maybe yes but cumans and kipchaks were under same leader banner etc thank you i check your link. i write 2morrow theories what i have.
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Post by Asparuh on Jun 10, 2011 1:52:40 GMT 3
The Cumans were a significant stepped people who played important part in solving diferent conflict between the medieval countries.One thing i dont know if they were pagan.Do you know which gods they believed in.Very interesting peoples,excelent horseriders and bowarchers. I have uploaded photos of Cumand in the Cumans category.
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Post by Ardavarz on Jun 11, 2011 3:41:16 GMT 3
The religion of Cumans was most probably some variant of Tengriism. It's interesting that according to Bulgarian apocryphal "Vision of Isaiah" the Bulgars have differentiated from Cumans by adopting Christianity.
Maybe the mythology recorded in the Nart epic of Balkars is very similar given their closeness to Kumyks in Daghestan (perhaps the closest relatives of the Cumans). There we have the supreme god Teiri (from Tengri) called Ullu Teiri ("Great God"). Then there is the goddess-mother Umay-biyche ("Mistress Umay") - his daughter represented as white three-legged hind. It appears that every natural phenomenon has its own deity - teiri. The major deities are Kök Teirisi ("Deity of Sky"), Zher Teirisi ("Deity of Earth"), Suu Teirisi ("Deity of Water") alias Suu Anasï ("Mother of Water"), while the head of the pantheon is Kün Teirisi ("Deity of Sun") called also Qainar Teiri ("Boiling Deity"). There is also mentioning of Ot Teirisi ("Deity of Fire"), Tengiz Teirisi ("Deity of Sea") in the image of Suu Jelmauuz ("Water-Dragon") etc.
All this is very similar to the general structure of Türküt religion as described in Byzantine sources: the supreme god, then the four elements of nature of which the fire is most revered and so on. As I wrote in another topic they can be represented by the four letters in the name of Tengri.
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Post by benzin on Jun 11, 2011 7:31:58 GMT 3
You just prooved that hungarian word for sea : tenger relates to türkish word dengiz, deniz.
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Post by Asparuh on Jun 13, 2011 1:25:01 GMT 3
Ok,Thank you for revealing that.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 13, 2011 1:44:31 GMT 3
There we have the supreme god Teiri (from Tengri) called Ullu Teiri ("Great God"). Then there is the goddess-mother Umay-biyche ("Mistress Umay") - his daughter represented as white three-legged hind. It appears that every natural phenomenon has its own deity - teiri. The major deities are Kök Teirisi ("Deity of Sky"), Zher Teirisi ("Deity of Earth"), Suu Teirisi ("Deity of Water") alias Suu Anasï ("Mother of Water"), while the head of the pantheon is Kün Teirisi ("Deity of Sun") called also Qainar Teiri ("Boiling Deity"). There is also mentioning of Ot Teirisi ("Deity of Fire"), Tengiz Teirisi ("Deity of Sea") in the image of Suu Jelmauuz ("Water-Dragon") etc. That also fits Mahmud of Kashghar's definition of the word Tängri.
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Post by hjernespiser on Jun 13, 2011 19:40:37 GMT 3
You just prooved that hungarian word for sea : tenger relates to türkish word dengiz, deniz. I'm not sure I understand you.
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Post by benzin on Jun 14, 2011 12:50:39 GMT 3
I wasnt sure before that the base teng of tenger relates to turkic deng, den, it was possible, but what ardavarz mentioned, Tengiz Teirisi ("Deity of Sea") in balkarian language where the root is exactly the same and the meaning is the same as well, it hardly can be called a coincidence.
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Post by hjernespiser on Jun 14, 2011 18:43:31 GMT 3
Oh. Was the t/d sound change causing the issue?
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Post by benzin on Jun 14, 2011 19:40:30 GMT 3
Yes, about this word its not widely known, you will find only a few hits on the net which take this 2 words to be related.
Now the question is, is tengri relates to tengiz, tenger ? It should be at the first sight, but why did the name for god changed to teiri in balkarian then if they have the word tengiz for the sea.
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Post by hjernespiser on Jun 14, 2011 20:06:49 GMT 3
'Teiri' probably underwent the same sound change that occurred in Tuvan to end up with 'deer'; it was probably originally something like 'tegiri', with a soft g. BTW, the orthography sometimes gets in the way which is why linguists use IPA when performing comparative linguistics. The 'd' in Tuvan spelling is an aspirated /t/ sound while a 't' is an unaspirated /t/ sound.
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Post by benzin on Jun 16, 2011 12:50:50 GMT 3
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