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Post by hjernespiser on Dec 31, 2011 19:46:06 GMT 3
The color of divinity.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 31, 2011 20:08:32 GMT 3
Chalap ("ch" as in "Charles") is thought to be Syriac loanword in Anatolian Turkish.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2011 21:12:31 GMT 3
In Azeri Turkish we use both, Tanrı and Allah. And we use Tanrı quite often actually.
I have come across in Turkey that "Tanrı" can be offensive to some people, as it would refer to a non-Islamic, Pagan God.
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Post by Ardavarz on Dec 31, 2011 23:08:57 GMT 3
Khokh/khökh is Mongolian word for "blue" equivalent ot Turkic kök and so an epithet of Tenger/Tengri ("sky, god"). Later in some Turkic languages it has begun to mean "sky" itself and so the combination "Kök Tengri" to sound redundant. I believe that apart from being the colour of sky, this could be related also to the visual perception of the life-force (orgone energy) which creates an impression for blue radiation.
There is another epithet of Tenger/Tengri - mönkh (= Turkic mengü/bengü) meaning "eternal". They are usually combined as "Eternal Blue Sky". One of the first ones who has written on this topic in 19th century - the Buryat scholar Dordje Banzarov interpreted those as two aspects of God - "blue" is the visible (material) sky, while "eternal" is the invisible (spiritual) sky.
Interestingly enough a very similar concept about the supreme dual deity has existed in Central America amongst Toltecs and Aztecs. There the supreme creator Ometeotl ("Two-God") is manifested as Wind (Ehecatl, i.e. breath, life energy) and Night (Yoalli, i.e. invisible). Likewise in Tengrian mythology the Universe (Bir Tangra) is divided in the visible world called Chel (probably derived from jel - "wind", representing life energy) and the invisible worlds (including Kök - the upper world, and Tama - the underworld) called Tunai (from tön - "night", representing invisibility of the spiritual reality). Also in the Saka Mithraism there is the dual deity Mithra-Ahuramazda (equivalent to the Vedic divine couple Mitra-Varuṇa) corresponding to the worls of getig ("life, living beings") and menog ("mind, spirit"). This arechetypical idea reflects the fundamental duality of existence between the aspects of life/material/visible and spirit/mind/invisible always in mutual transition and complementary dialectical relation as presented in the Chinese Yin-Yang symbol.
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Post by abdulhay on Jan 1, 2012 3:10:09 GMT 3
thanks guys for the update,
ardavarz u amaze me with your knowledge, are u reading history as a hobby or as a subject in university
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Post by Ardavarz on Jan 2, 2012 2:15:26 GMT 3
Yeah, I wish... I am just a jobless philosopher and studying ancient cultures and languages is my source of ideas and inspiration (also a way to keep my mind away from my desperate situation and pending starvation).
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Post by abdulhay on Jan 2, 2012 3:12:17 GMT 3
I see, , moaf*g bashi, translation, may you be succesful finding a job,
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Post by Atabeg on Jan 2, 2012 17:36:03 GMT 3
in eastern Turkey the word Huda or Xuda is still used when my grandmother is angry she says Ya Xuda ya mevlam it means oh my god my god = it accualy is something like god give me patience...
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 2, 2012 18:07:14 GMT 3
Khuda is actually a Persian loanword common in many Islamic and non-Islamic Turkic peoples.
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Post by Ardavarz on Jan 3, 2012 0:17:48 GMT 3
Yes, Mawla is Arabian word for "benefactor", while Khoda is Iranian for "lord" (from Khwa-dā meaning something like "self-given" or "being his own law") - sometimes I wonder if it is presented also in Scythian Kola (otherwise usually interpreted as "sun") with regular change d > l (like in Skuda > Skutha > Skula - "Scythian", lit. "shooter").
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Post by abdulhay on Jan 3, 2012 1:25:23 GMT 3
interesting,
I wonder if the word bagha, as in baghatur comes from ancient persian language, according to wikipedia it does,
gumeilev wrote that the word bagha, comes from ancient altaic or turkic language meaning something dont remember,
I have read that baghdad also comes from the word bagha or bagh which has a meaning in old avestan persian, dont remember what, is it true?
I have another question as well, is tengri or tangri, the shaman god only or can you apply that to a abrahamic god as well?
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 3, 2012 22:49:45 GMT 3
Ancient Turks used the name Tengri for many divine beings including foreign ones such as Abrahamic gods and Buddha.
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Post by Ardavarz on Jan 3, 2012 23:48:10 GMT 3
I think it's possible that Indo-Iranian bhaga/baga/bagh/bay and Turkic baq/bay/bayat have a common origin. Both words have a meaning of "lord" or "god". I wrote about "baghatur" in another thread: steppes.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=board23&thread=28&page=24#27625"Baghdad" means "God-given" (< Bagha-dāta). "Tengri" seems to have meant originally "deity, spirit" or "lord" in general (it still retains such a meaning in Balkar Teyri and also in Mongolian). Later amongst some people it became to be used also as alternative name for the Abrahamitic god. I don't think this is correct as I wrote in a previous post, but these are the facts. For me personally as a Gnostic that one is just a Demiurge (creator of material universe and imprisoner of souls) and as such he is equivalent to Tengrian Šurale and Bogomilian Satanael, while Tengri corresponds not to him, but to Iranian Zurvān (= Manichean "Father of Greatness") and Gnostic Abraxas - the true God above duality and beyond good and evil.
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Post by abdulhay on Jan 4, 2012 2:18:59 GMT 3
thanks, Ill check it up
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Post by massaget on Jan 4, 2012 20:27:46 GMT 3
The word bagatur exists in several languages in different forms and it means some kind of elite soldier, a hero, many times with a god given power. The word in georgian : bakator mongol : batur polish : bohater hungarian saved both words bator and bakator as well. As the word shortened lost its original meaning, and since ancient times bakator is the name of a scpecific hungarian type of winegrape.
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