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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 28, 2006 23:57:52 GMT 3
I got some questions for you; I have been trying to find an answer to them for a long time.
1) Most of the great rivers of the Pontic-Caspian steppe have their names related: Danube (became Tuna in Turkish), Don, Dniester, Dnieper, etc... Some years ago, I read about a theory that these names were drived from an Iranian word for river: Don or Danu (don't sure of the exact spelling). But this spring, I heard another theory that those names drived from the Turkic word Ton (ton- = freeze). Which theory is more credible? Do the Iranian languages have a word like Don or Danu with the meaning of "River"? What is the equivalent of "River" in the Iranian languages? What about the Turkic theory?
2) The name of one of the Sarmatian tribes was recorded as Iazyges in the Greko-Roman sources. What is the ethymology beyond this name? Is it an Iranian name or is it a Turkic name driving from Yazïgh? If Iranian, what was it's meaning? Or did the Turkic name Yazïgh (the Turkic name of one of the great rivers of the Pontic-Caspian steppe) drive from Iazyges?
3) Again some years ago, I had read a theory about the ethymology of the famous Massagethian queen Tomiris who defeated and killed Kirosh (Cyrus) of the Akhaemenid Persians (I think that tehory was from Alparslan of AE). Is it possible that Tomiris/Tomaris drived from the Altaic word for "Iron", Temür/Teymür?
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Post by Atabeg on Jul 29, 2006 0:28:47 GMT 3
isn't spring called pinar in turkic and river is derya like amu derya and syr derya in CA------------
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 29, 2006 0:47:52 GMT 3
Daryâ (Deryâ) is an Iranian word
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Post by Atabeg on Jul 29, 2006 11:29:25 GMT 3
ahah cuz turks use it to you know bt pinar is stil spring right.
and nehir ist that turkic or also an adopted word
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Jul 29, 2006 21:16:45 GMT 3
I think nehir is an adopted word as there is no "h" in old Turkic... But maybe "ırmak, dere, çay" can be Turkic, I don't know...
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Post by tengrikut on Jul 29, 2006 22:55:30 GMT 3
I think nehir is an adopted word as there is no "h" in old Turkic... But maybe "ırmak, dere, çay" can be Turkic, I don't know... in bengü tashs rivers are called as "taluy". and oghuz khan says: "taký taluy, taký müren; kün tuð bolgýl, kök kurýkan." mean more rivers, more seas, make sun our tug and sea yurt.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jul 30, 2006 19:20:54 GMT 3
River is Ögüz in 6th-10th century Turkic.
Nehir comes from Arabic Nahr/Nehr.
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Aug 11, 2006 21:46:41 GMT 3
I think nehir is an adopted word as there is no "h" in old Turkic... But maybe "ırmak, dere, çay" can be Turkic, I don't know... in bengü tashs rivers are called as "taluy". and oghuz khan says: "taký taluy, taký müren; kün tuð bolgýl, kök kurýkan." mean more rivers, more seas, make sun our tug and sea yurt. You are wrong, "kök" is not sea, and "Taki" is not more. Taki is translated into Turkish as "daha" which means "more" but it has a different meaning which is "Here" (as you know "Iste" in Turkish). There are many regions where ppl call "daha" instead of "iste". And one more thing (that is not to you), I think it must be "moran" instead of "müren". Because if you read the whole talk of Oghuz Khan, all of the last syllables of all lines are -an (kaghAN, urAN, buyAN, kalkAN, kurikAN and it must be morAN I think.). What do you think of this? So; "Taki Taluy, Taki Moran, Kün Tug Bolgıl, Kök Kurikan" means "Here river, Here Sea; Make Sun our tug, and sky our yurt(tent)."
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Post by tengrikut on Aug 12, 2006 0:58:30 GMT 3
i looked again but is was written as "müren".
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Aug 12, 2006 14:07:24 GMT 3
yeah I know. there are different writings of it. but what do you think of my theory? Does not it have to be "moran"?
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Post by tengrikut on Aug 12, 2006 16:10:11 GMT 3
yeah I know. there are different writings of it. but what do you think of my theory? Does not it have to be "moran"? why not? there are lots of turkic dialects. and your moran smells like Uzbek one
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Aug 12, 2006 16:29:02 GMT 3
Since Müren is Mongolian, we can not say it might have been "Moran".
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Aug 12, 2006 18:28:04 GMT 3
Since Müren is Mongolian, we can not say it might have been "Moran". Thx for that info, you have destroyed my little, pure, poor theory and you disobeyed the rhyme... But it says Itil Moran, Tarang Moran in the legend of Oghuz. Maybe moran could be an older version of Müren. Can't?
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Post by Atabeg on Aug 12, 2006 20:00:31 GMT 3
i looked again but is was written as "müren". zeki muren(old turkish singer) ;D
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Post by Boorchi Noyan on Aug 12, 2006 20:20:54 GMT 3
i looked again but is was written as "müren". zeki muren(old turkish singer) ;D yeah but I know many people whose surnames were "moran".
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