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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 9, 2010 11:41:12 GMT 3
Hey Chono, calm down buddy ;D ;D Seriously, our dear member Jamyangnorbu pointed out to the fact that it might be Pre-Buddhist, and we know that Pre-Buddhist Tibetans were good riders and had a strong empire in Central Asia
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Post by jamyangnorbu on Jan 9, 2010 19:32:53 GMT 3
I am sorry if my words have upset you. It was not my intent. I have read your posts here and elsewhere with a lot of interest and have been subscribed to your youtube channel for some time as well. I posted something that was initially speculative, but the more I look into it, and the more you post, the more convinced I am that хийморь is an import from Tibetan culture. YEAH! MEH TIBETIANS??? Everyone loves Tibetians! Even Chinese! I am a MONGOL! And there are Mongols who hate Tibetians! Ok, but what does this have to do with the topic? This is not really on topic, but are you serious? You don't know that Tibetans have long been divided into two economic models? These two models are the agrarians (རོང་པ་ / rong pa) and nomads (འབྲོག་པ་ / 'brog pa). The nomads are still there despite the PRC settlement policies and have traditionally made up the majority of the Tibetan population. I am in class with a nomad, will be completing my current alongside people who grew up nomads in Qīnghǎi in 2 years. The snow lion is a stylized representation of the snow leopard. It is also not the only symbol of strength for Tibetans. These are from the eight auspicious symbols (aṣṭamañgala, བཀྲ་ཤིས་རྟགས་བརྒྱད་ /bkra shis rtags brgyad) imported from Indian Buddhism. They are not the same thing as the རླུང་རྟ་/rlung rta which predates the importation of Buddhism. I am not confusing them. You are the one confused here if you think that хий, шар, and бадган are just poisons and not the very foundation for your health or un-health. Yes, if someone has an excess of хий they will have problems such as what you describe, as well as others. But if one has no wind, they will not move, not speak, will not have a connection between mind and body, no circulation of blood, etc. As above, this is one symptom of an excess of шар, or disturbed шар. If someone has too little, they will have no intelligence, courage, digestion, will have weak complexion etc. Same as above. If someone has no бадган they will have so stability, no strength, etc. Right, but neither do хий, шар, or бадган if they are in balance. But this is all besides the point. My point was to show that linguistically хийморь and རླུང་རྟ་/rlung rta are the same. Right and all of this is true of rlung rta as well. Ok, irrelevant. You posted the Mongolian version. Here is the Tibetan version. Both are originally non-Buddhist but have incorporated Buddhist iconography, specifically the wish fulfilling jewel or blazing jewel (cintamaṇi, ནོར་བུ་མེ་འབར་/nor bu me 'bar). By the way, does this next one maybe remind you of the practice of going to an овоо to raise or increase one's хийморь? All the best.
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Post by jamyangnorbu on Jan 9, 2010 20:20:06 GMT 3
Hey Chono, calm down buddy ;D ;D Seriously, our dear member Jamyangnorbu pointed out to the fact that it might be Pre-Buddhist, and we know that Pre-Buddhist Tibetans were good riders and had a strong empire in Central Asia There is no uncertainty that it predates Buddhism in Tibet. It is found as part of Tibetan elemental divination that does not come from India, and there are very early texts detailing this.
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Post by Bor Chono on Jan 10, 2010 7:30:22 GMT 3
There is only one Ovoo in Mongolia that believed to increase Khii-mori. Bogda Ula = Ruler`s mountain, south of Ulaanbaatar. Other ovoos are for other worship & gods! As for those 3 wish stones Mongols call it Chand Manah Erdene = Must Guard Well Treasure. This Ovoo`s name is Chand Mana khairkhan. Ulaanbaatar was capitol of Khereids. Mongols see Fire Moon or rising sun to increase it`s Khii-mori. www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR0y1CrcBio-Because of Tibetian enlightenment theory human developement was stopped in Mongolia! Tibetians stole Mongolian title Dalai Lama to rule Mongols. All Dalai lamas are reincarnation of 1st enlightened one =Dalai lama Zanabazar khaan of Khalkha Mongols. Chingghis khaan also had title Dalai Khaan = Ocean king. I was born because of Atheism! My grandfather stopped being lama so my father was born. These talks about Tibetians is not related with this topic!
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Post by Subu'atai on Jan 17, 2010 15:33:09 GMT 3
Everyone is on their own spiritual journey under the blue sky Anda
Myself, my faith is more individual then anything. My own people? They can just go pray to buddha or w/e, meh, I don't care anymore.
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Post by Bor Chono on Jan 18, 2010 6:34:14 GMT 3
A women in USA who practice Mongolian shamanism/tengrism (more clearly Buryat shamanism) says : -When heard that Tibetian Buddhism was quit similar to Mongolian Tengrism, I visited Tibetian buddhist monestery and told Lamas that she was a Tengrist. The head Lama said : -Please stop practice that!. And he gave no reason for it. They(=lamas) stopped to talk with me. -When i heard this words. My opinions about Tibetians became low!. I know that she(my friend) will not lie to me! Tibetians don`t believe in creator. Mongolian Tengrism has some similiarities with Cristianity & Islam. There is one who created us using earth. He has no image. There is tree of life. There is Hell & Heaven. Even the lord of Hell ERLIK (=turkic name) / ERLIG KHAAN (=Mongol name) looks similar to Satan =Hot bodybuilder with horns. These Tibetians ignore the creator & old gods!
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Post by Subu'atai on Jan 18, 2010 15:40:58 GMT 3
I think I know exactly who you are talking about, yes I've heard her story too.
It is very difficult to be tolerant of INTOLERANT RELIGIONS. Same goes with cultures/etc. Constant internal struggle for me.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 18, 2010 22:54:17 GMT 3
-When i heard this words. My opinions about Tibetians became low!. I know that she(my friend) will not lie to me! Tibetians don`t believe in creator. Mongolian Tengrism has some similiarities with Cristianity & Islam. There is one who created us using earth. He has no image. There is tree of life. There is Hell & Heaven. This is a very interesting topic I have been studying recently Indeed there are some similarities between Turko-Mongol beliefs and Monotheist Middle Eastern Semitic religions, especially Christianity and Islam. Some of these similarities, such as believing only one creator, were more like coincidences, because you can trace such a belief among Altaic peoples even before both Semitic religions appeared (the earliest trace of it is seen in China in the 1st millenium BC where this belief was brought by most-ptobably-Altaic nomads of the Zhou Dynasty). However, some of the similarities, especially in the later stages, were due to influence, especially the concept of heaven and hell. Even the lord of Hell ERLIK (=turkic name) / ERLIG KHAAN (=Mongol name) looks similar to Satan =Hot bodybuilder with horns. These Tibetians ignore the creator & old gods! Actually the Turkic concept of Erlik Khan was a borrowing from the Indian god of death, Yama यम (Yan 閻 in Chinese), which reached the Turks via Buddhism during the Uyghur period.
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Post by hjernespiser on Jan 19, 2010 8:20:20 GMT 3
Hinduism actually has the belief of a single creator God too and all the other gods and goddesses are aspects of this singular Godhead.
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Post by jamyangnorbu on Jan 19, 2010 17:15:26 GMT 3
Even the lord of Hell ERLIK (=turkic name) / ERLIG KHAAN (=Mongol name) looks similar to Satan =Hot bodybuilder with horns. These Tibetians ignore the creator & old gods! Actually the Turkic concept of Erlik Khan was a borrowing from the Indian god of death, Yama यम (Yan 閻 in Chinese), which reached the Turks via Buddhism during the Uyghur period. That's interesting to read. I know that when the Tibetan Buddhist Cannon, the བཀའ་འགྱུར་ (bka' 'gyur), was translated into Mongolian that Yamarāja was translated as Erlig Qaγan (Эрлэг хан). Do you have any sources that identify the earlier version of Erlig Qaγan as also being an import from Buddhism? Thanks.
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Post by jamyangnorbu on Jan 19, 2010 17:19:17 GMT 3
Hinduism actually has the belief of a single creator God too and all the other gods and goddesses are aspects of this singular Godhead. That depends on which philosophical darśana you are talking about. The perspective you present above is roughly advaita vedanta. It would not be accepted by followers of saṃkhā who are atheistic substance dualists.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 20, 2010 14:41:44 GMT 3
Do you have any sources that identify the earlier version of Erlig Qaγan as also being an import from Buddhism? Thanks. There are four examples of the existence of Ärklig Qan in Turfanese Uyghur texts, which can be found in the Türkische Turfan-Texte, vol. I, pp.8, 25 (1929) and vol. VI, pp.22, 91 (1934). According to Ahmet Caferoğlu in his Eski Uygur Türkçesi Sözlüğü (Old Uyghur Turkic Dictionary), this Turfanese Uyghur concept of Ärklig Qan passed to Mongolian as Erlik Khan. I didn't come across with this "Ärklig Qan" concept in Turkic Runic inscriptions, so this is most probably a borrowing from Buddhism, but of course the Turks Turkified this concept by giving it a title meaning "Powerful Ruler" in Turkic.
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Post by jamyangnorbu on Jan 20, 2010 17:03:58 GMT 3
Thanks Ihsan. Very interesting stuff.
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Post by Bor Chono on Jun 29, 2010 14:46:10 GMT 3
Hindu god of Death is a human being with mace & crown, who rides a water buffalo. Mongolian Erlig khaan is Fire being with fire blonde hair, skull crown, Human skeleton mace. And he has 3rd eye! Who has dark sky-blue skin and sometimes ride a bull. But this bull is not his bull, bull is his wife`s bull. Mongols call this bull SHAR. -The reason why Erlig khaan has Bull head is He is DEATH+MALE UKH = Die MALE = ER "UKHER" = Bull or Cow. Death = UKHEL -Hindu god of death YAMA don`t have 3rd eye!=The eyes of Bilge. This 3rd eye is something that is related with Mongols & Tibetians. ===Mongols have a word YAMA means GOAT=== THIS GOD IS NOT INDIAN GOD! ERLIG KHAAN DRINKS BLOOD FROM SKULL. HE IS 100% MONGOLIAN. OR MADE IN MONGOLIA!!! www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmguwxSLqAU-Any questions?
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Post by Bor Chono on Jun 29, 2010 15:00:17 GMT 3
AND HE DOES NOT HIDE HIS MALE PRIDE! ;D NO one can cheat or defeat DEATH! -So Erlig khaan has eyes of Bilge which sees all. -So some warriors carry horns on their helmets. Yes he is ERLIG KHAAN = Powerful ruler 2nd after Creator father heaven. NUMBER TWO
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