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Post by aca on Sept 26, 2006 12:32:24 GMT 3
I agree. Especialy if we know that all nomadic peoples, even to this day, pay so much respect to their ancestors, and can trace their origins back to many generations before them. Maybe the Chinese were wrong I guess this question will stay open for a long time
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 10, 2007 23:42:53 GMT 3
I have finally updated the list. However, there are still missing parts that need to be filled up
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uyghur
Är
essalamu ,eleykom
Posts: 15
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Post by uyghur on Sept 30, 2007 16:42:39 GMT 3
essalamu eleykom. rehmet (thankyou)
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Oct 1, 2007 22:16:54 GMT 3
You are welcome brother
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Post by İLTERİŞ on Sept 11, 2009 18:26:13 GMT 3
thanks ihsan
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 12, 2009 1:41:23 GMT 3
I thank you dear friend Though the list has to be updated I will do that soon.
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Post by dadas on Sept 29, 2009 22:45:31 GMT 3
Thanks for info
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 30, 2009 9:32:38 GMT 3
Thank you, and welcome aboard dadas Actually I have to update the list one day.
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Post by Diggiz on Jul 13, 2011 19:49:16 GMT 3
H. Ihsan Erkoc, this topic good. Thanks...
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Post by Hongda Lai on Dec 31, 2019 1:49:49 GMT 3
默棘連 【棘】middle Chinese: mək (modern Mandarin: muo) 【棘】middle Chinese: ki̯ək (modern Mandarin: ji) 【連】middle Chinese: ljæn (modern Mandarin: lian) since Middle Chinese retains consonant finals -p,-t,-k ( but lost in Mandarin), 默棘連 in the 6th~ 7th century Chinese should read like mə k - ki̯ək - ljæn therefore it makes sense that Chinese interpreters in the 6th century use 棘(k-) after 默( -k) because the beginning consonant of the second character follows the consonant final of the first character. so we can presume that the Kaghan's name 默棘連 is in some form like: m_k_kl_n It is only reasonable to see and interpret these translated names (from thousand year ago) using middle Chinese pronunciation but not modern Chinese ( such as Mandarin). other examples: 室點蜜 ɕje t - tie m - mjĕt (İstemi) 闕特勤 khiuɑ t də k - ɡiən(Kul Tegin) presume Chinese use -t to correspond Turkish -l 骨篤祿、骨咄祿 kuə t - tuə t - luk ( Qutlugh ) 葉護 ɕi̯ɑ̈ p - ɣuo (Yagbu) ...and other numerous names reference: www.eastling.org/zgycx.php (middle Chinese)
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 31, 2019 16:39:42 GMT 3
Thank you for your contribution Hongda Lai. Since 2006 (my original post), I got a lot into Middle Chinese phonetics and reconstructions of Old Turkic vocabulary found in Chinese sources.
I have realised that my list of Türk qaghans made back in 2004 contains some errors and I have to correct them, but right now I got no free time for that. Perhaps in the future.
Oh and thank you very much for the link too.
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Post by Hongda Lai on Dec 31, 2019 21:01:56 GMT 3
Thank you for your contribution Hongda Lai. Since 2006 (my original post), I got a lot into Middle Chinese phonetics and reconstructions of Old Turkic vocabulary found in Chinese sources. I have realised that my list of Türk qaghans made back in 2004 contains some errors and I have to correct them, but right now I got no free time for that. Perhaps in the future. Oh and thank you very much for the link too. Thank you prof. Erkoc. I am a research fellow currently researching on southern Chinese Han Dialect of Min Nam ( of Fu Jian proviance ) and sometimes I have to read a lot of chronicles and literature to find out the etymological origin of a particular dialectical word and its usage. I know quite a few scholars in East Asian countries ( China, Japan, Korea and Taiwan) had done the job of sorting out the names of East Asian countries/dynasties' rulers/emperors mentioned in Chinese sources into organised genealogical charts and published them in books. It covers not only from Xia to Qing Dynasties , but also includes all the nomadic rulers' names from Xiongnu to Mongols. ( including Turkish Kaghantes ) I guess maybe this kind of information is scarce in Turkey....( not sure ) and I believe that all Turkish people should know more about their ancestral achievements in East Asia and have easy access to the original East Asian sources .
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 31, 2019 21:21:55 GMT 3
Thank you Mr. Hongda. Indeed historical texts can be of great value in dialectical and linguistic studies.
You are right, only a few scholars in Turkey studying Central Asian Turkic History actually know Chinese and in fact, most of them are actually dubious. There are a few scholars in the field of Sinology, however, that conduct some nice studies. Here in Turkey we can access to the vast amount of Chinese sources but modern studies are far more harder to access.
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