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Hero
May 9, 2006 13:01:15 GMT 3
Post by Bor Chono on May 9, 2006 13:01:15 GMT 3
Now(almost a year) I`m making a story(=fairy tale)book about a Mongol hero who defeates everyone from Monsters to Dragons. It not my real job(writer), just a hobby. My friends joke: -please finish your book before we become grandfathers. ;D I`m not a historian, just history fan. It will be a Hunnic story. The Tengries(99 of them) will choose a Hero (messenger) to protect the Upper world(=sacret montain top).There will be two of them. The hero who won will conquer whole Middle world(=the steppe), will fight with monster(with huge numbered armies with beasts & dragons) countries of Down world(=sedentary ppl). In this story there will be Turk like ppl(=with Turk culture) called TURGENS(I gave this name, it means FAST PPL).Their leader will become one of 4 horsemen who follow the Hero. So I need more information about Turk legends & magic, curse & weapons & beasts, monstars...etc(=ancient, non Muslim). Story book without Pic is a disaster.I draw this pic a year ago : This pic is not will be in my book.(You need to draw many pics then choose few.) Traditionally it is forbitten describe a defeat. SO I NEED SOME HELP!?
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Hero
May 10, 2006 22:37:49 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 10, 2006 22:37:49 GMT 3
What exactly do you want to know?
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Hero
May 11, 2006 16:32:53 GMT 3
Post by Bor Chono on May 11, 2006 16:32:53 GMT 3
What exactly do you want to know? What will make U a hero?
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Hero
May 13, 2006 0:22:30 GMT 3
Post by Boorchi Noyan on May 13, 2006 0:22:30 GMT 3
Well my dear friend, but Turgens can't be a Turk's name, because it is naot a suitable word as it does not obey the Turkish grammar. I mean that if your word has one of the [a,o,u,ı] vowels it must continue with these, so you can't use "e" as the second vowel. In which lang. it means "fast"?
About your question, I think bravery & success in wars, makes one hero.
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Hero
May 14, 2006 11:34:59 GMT 3
Post by Bor Chono on May 14, 2006 11:34:59 GMT 3
Well my dear friend, but Turgens can't be a Turk's name, because it is naot a suitable word as it does not obey the Turkish grammar. I mean that if your word has one of the [a,o,u,ı] vowels it must continue with these, so you can't use "e" as the second vowel. In which lang. it means "fast"? About your question, I think bravery & success in wars, makes one hero. Well thank U, my hongor(=dear) friend, "Turgen" is mongol word, it means FAST, QUICK -when U speak about movement & thinking. I know that ancient Turks used to respect DEER. So at first, I wanted to name these Turk like ppl as "Deer ppl"=BUGANs -but BUGANchuud( -"uud" is used to make things many. For exmpl: Nom/book/+uud=Nomnuud/Books/) sounds not good. It sounds like "BUGEN"=Dark or Grey like color. Also I wanted to call them SAVAGES=KHARGISuud/=sounds like KIRGIZ/. Then I thought Mongols were more savage than Turks. The MERKITs(=one of ancestors of Kazak ppl) are called MERGEDs(Mergeduud=Wise ppl) in mongolian lang. -A QUESTION! So What does "TURK" mean?. I really don`t know what does "MONGOL" mean. Mongols still argue about it. I think it is Sanskrit(=ancient Indian language) word. About your question, I think bravery & success in wars, makes one hero. -Very good answer!.I`m agree that "HERO" is "ELITE KILLER". But everyone is not brave & if U are leading a weak army(=your ppl has no moral, gods don`t like U or something else is wrong) U can`t make success in war. For mongols, a brave enemy leader will be the first target -just one archer can take him down. Is it possible that some relic(=magical item) make U a hero? besides we are talking about a fairy tale. -A QUESTION! Is there any fairy tale magical item for Turks. Item which make U stronger faster and deadly.
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Hero
May 14, 2006 20:54:23 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 14, 2006 20:54:23 GMT 3
The favor of Teñri can help an outnumbered group of warriors achieve a great victory against large numbers of enemies.
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Hero
May 15, 2006 17:57:37 GMT 3
Post by tengrikut on May 15, 2006 17:57:37 GMT 3
Well my dear friend, but Turgens can't be a Turk's name, because it is naot a suitable word as it does not obey the Turkish grammar. I mean that if your word has one of the [a,o,u,ı] vowels it must continue with these, so you can't use "e" as the second vowel. In which lang. it means "fast"? About your question, I think bravery & success in wars, makes one hero. Well thank U, my hongor(=dear) friend, "Turgen" is mongol word, it means FAST, QUICK -when U speak about movement & thinking. I know that ancient Turks used to respect DEER. So at first, I wanted to name these Turk like ppl as "Deer ppl"=BUGANs -but BUGANchuud( -"uud" is used to make things many. For exmpl: Nom/book/+uud=Nomnuud/Books/) sounds not good. It sounds like "BUGEN"=Dark or Grey like color. Also I wanted to call them SAVAGES=KHARGISuud/=sounds like KIRGIZ/. Then I thought Mongols were more savage than Turks. The MERKITs(=one of ancestors of Kazak ppl) are called MERGEDs(Mergeduud=Wise ppl) in mongolian lang. -A QUESTION! So What does "TURK" mean?. I really don`t know what does "MONGOL" mean. Mongols still argue about it. I think it is Sanskrit(=ancient Indian language) word. About your question, I think bravery & success in wars, makes one hero. -Very good answer!.I`m agree that "HERO" is "ELITE KILLER". But everyone is not brave & if U are leading a weak army(=your ppl has no moral, gods don`t like U or something else is wrong) U can`t make success in war. For mongols, a brave enemy leader will be the first target -just one archer can take him down. Is it possible that some relic(=magical item) make U a hero? besides we are talking about a fairy tale. -A QUESTION! Is there any fairy tale magical item for Turks. Item which make U stronger faster and deadly. well... turkmen riders wears eagle fings on their back. so they seem horrible to their enemies. and we drink "kýmýz" -it's made of horse milk- also, we have the same culture with mongols. so what a mongol warrior make, it means also a turk warrior do it
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Hero
May 17, 2006 13:30:15 GMT 3
Post by Bor Chono on May 17, 2006 13:30:15 GMT 3
well... turkmen riders wears eagle fings on their back. so they seem horrible to their enemies. and we drink "kýmýz" -it's made of horse milk- also, we have the same culture with mongols. so what a mongol warrior make, it means also a turk warrior do it Yes FEAR is useful in battle. Before battle Mongol generals give order "-Hengregee deld!"=means "-Beat your chests". It means "prepare for battle". However no one beat their chest. Word "HENGEREG" means "CHEST" "THIN SKIN -Drum skin, skin that make sound". Special soldiers start to drum. Mongols believe in TENGRI=SKY GOD & Shamanism. You can call itTENGRISM. In Shamanism drums are used to summon spirits. Special WAR DRUMS are used to call evil spirits -to scare enemy. It is forbitten to call evil spirits, if U are not a shaman. Mongol shaman with his drum: Then Mongols start to shout as loudly as possible, also clank a metal. From ancient time Mongols belive that evil spirits afraid of sound of bell(=metal). So Evil spirit will not harm these shouting ppl(=Mongols) instead they will attack opposing army. Also Mongols have chest mirrors -chest mirrors are used to chase evil spirits.(Little chest mirror is not useful as armor! it is religious item.) This is Buryat shaman -look at his chest mirror. Look at these Tibetians! everyone tryed to have atleast one chest mirror. Tibetians are very religious, so they know that chest mirrors are useful. But these mirrors look not real(too huge), looks like thin round metal without symbols. Look at this Scythian chest mirror! Looks like it was made by special order by Indian craftsmen: (I found this pic on internet) In this pic U can see that Manchu generals also have chest mirrors. It means their minds will not be polluted by evil spirits: WITHOUT A CHEST MIRROR U ARE "HALF HERO"! I hope TURKMEN ANGELS have own defences against evil spirits. Or is it same? If U wan`t to know about chest mirrors more just ask me.
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Hero
May 18, 2006 4:55:14 GMT 3
Post by Bor Chono on May 18, 2006 4:55:14 GMT 3
The favor of Teñri can help an outnumbered group of warriors achieve a great victory against large numbers of enemies. -Yes. Tengri of War(if there is one!) can help. First U need to give him a sacrifice. Mostly horses are used as sacrifice. Human sacrifice became rare since Temujin(=Chinggis). His father Esukhei captured a Tatar bagatur(=hero) Temujin alive, then sacrificed him. All his powers & name came to his new born son -it means U can take power from others. This is how I tryed to describe Turks before I started my research on internet : ;D (My imagination for ancient turks , at first I thought they look like Kazak ppl.)
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Hero
May 19, 2006 0:22:27 GMT 3
Post by tengrikut on May 19, 2006 0:22:27 GMT 3
this people looks like today's kazakhs more than anient turks. and also, beard is not good for turks' culture before islam.
and that sword. turks use thin swords which is quick and light. so they can be fast.
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Hero
May 19, 2006 8:48:47 GMT 3
Post by Bor Chono on May 19, 2006 8:48:47 GMT 3
Thank U Tengrikut. If it is possible could U ppl post some pic(=pic of Turk fairy tale hero). I think HISTORY & LEGENDS go together. Ppl! don`t forget these QUESTIONS! 1.What does "TURK" mean?. 2.Is there any fairy tale magical item for Turks. Item which make U stronger faster and deadly. 3.How U spell word "HERO" in Turk(Kazak, Uighur,...) lang? Hero will face many beasts & monstars. What about Monstars? 1. MON-STAR Mongolian monstar has many heads(from 2 to .....100......10000.....), hard skin, iron hard claws. Long claws are used to tear apart a chest and pull out a heart. They are tall, not fast moving but strong, some has fire breath & horn. Their skin is very hard -it means no arrows, just face to face compats. They often has no chest -heads are where the chest is. Their neck or back is vulnerable, also they are vulnerable to magic spells(=curse). Some Monstars are stupid, some are very clever. They can turn themselves into human and become hero or king -but they can`t live a normal life because of their hunger for human meat & blood. Land Spirits & Water spirits use them as Guards. Also some powerful khaans can use them as bodyguard. Monstar is not animal, it is Human=Freak=Super human. 3 eyed(or 1 eyed -this is not influence of Buddism, maybe Indian culture) Monstars(=God like Monstar) can see everything -they even know when they will die. What about Turk(kazak, uighur,...) Monstars?
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Hero
May 20, 2006 0:51:56 GMT 3
Post by tengrikut on May 20, 2006 0:51:56 GMT 3
hero = baatýr, botoor, yigit, alp... here you some pics of turkic heros: kultekin: great commander of kok turks. sorry i don't have pics about heros. so i couldun't help you.
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Hero
May 20, 2006 1:07:08 GMT 3
Post by tengrikut on May 20, 2006 1:07:08 GMT 3
and monsters... i think they are same. more than one head, one or many eyes, big body, magic powers, eating human....
and in "kokut ata stories" there were some monsters. a herdsman rapes a thing like angel. then she borns a boy and gives him to herdsman. first, the boy seems normal. and day by day he becomes a monster. first he eates his friends' ears. then he eats people. and people left him in a mountain. then he grows up by eating sheeps. so people starts starving. bec monster eats their sheps and people. than a man kills the monster with his power and wisdom and saves his people... there are so many stories about monsters. this is about ethics more than bravery.
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Hero
May 21, 2006 10:14:06 GMT 3
Post by Bor Chono on May 21, 2006 10:14:06 GMT 3
a man kills the monster with his power and wisdom and saves his people... there are so many stories about monsters. this is about ethics more than bravery. Killing a beast or monstar(enemy) is ETHICS! -It means everyone must try his luck and go to monster to fight or if U are warrior(=Daichin, bagatur) U must (always) risk your life to save your ppl. -Am I right? Tengrikut!? What does word "ATA" mean? -There are five Tengries whos names are "Ata" and maybe called Ata+ ...., Ata+...., .....etc. These five Tengries guard human life & fortune. "Kok Turks" means "Blue Turks" -Am I right? This is his monument in Arhangai region Mongolia : In Pic of Kultekin(=Kultigin?) which Tengrikut posted, Kultekin is wearing strange hat.(not common for nomads) Is it Turk hat? Form of this hat looks like Chinese ministers hat. His boots reminded me about this high(=not common high) boots : A Nomad archer. Chinese painting of Yuan age, book "Shimin guyan tsi" Is it only painter`s idea or Turks wear such high boots? Is there any differences between Mongol & Turk boots? Ancient Mongols boots wasn`t high -present boots are more high. (However I`m not sure about it) Good boots will not make U powerful. However Chinese & Russians describe their heroes with high boots.
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Hero
May 21, 2006 15:00:47 GMT 3
Post by Nomad (Daz) on May 21, 2006 15:00:47 GMT 3
I like your project. I have one of my own. I started it for my girl. Its part of my dreams and my imagination about 8 GodFathers of nations, but thats nothing to do with your work. hehehe Whats make a hero? Battles. Sacrifice. Devotions to what he belives is right. Only people can judge will he be a hero or will he be a butcher. (It is said if you kill a hero and take his heart out it will be hairy like his chest) About monsters and don't know much. But in china to protect your house from evil they have small statue of scary animals on four sides of the roof and infront fron the main gate to scare them off. And they have high door steps, because evil slide the earth and can't step over the high door step. Some nomads also had high door steps because of the same belive. From evil I know about "Shaitan" they looks like black & hairy monkey human size (very scary looking) who is able to do a very strong magic. "Bes tyrnak" you can discibe her as witch. But her main weapon is her nails that can cut through stone and metals. She is also very good at magic and cleaver. Feeds on humans flesh. Mother of giants. Usually she has three gaint sons that eat humans flesh and terrorize travelers. Very strong. "Tas bol" I think is the best from steppes evil. He is nobel. Something like khan for all evil. Leader. He looks like a human of 60+ with belly and he is rich. His true appearence "shaitan". He is warlock. He can cast any spells. He likes to turn heros in to stone. He killed a lots of brave heros. More over he likes pritty girls and usually steal the bride on her wedding day to make it dramatic he kills every body that she loves, and waits for her lover to come for rescue(usually its heros) and kills them infront of the bride. His favorite magic is to turn people in to stone with word "tas bol". Magical bird "Samruk". I don't know whats so magical about this bird exept its huge as house and everybody wants to capture her egg.
Some of the characters appear now days in local legends in Kazakh countryside. With best regards Nomad
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