|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on Apr 16, 2013 7:33:11 GMT 3
I have something else wondering about Oguz ..I read Oguz tribes were not 24 before ,so some tribes joined Oguz later..How tribes join federation and become Oguz ? When did Oguz first appeared..I don't ask things before i search myself, but all I get is famous Oguz Kagan mytology, I found nothing about how step federations unite
..book names or any search tips pls?
thank you in advance
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 16, 2013 10:12:10 GMT 3
Even though the name Oghuz was already in use as a political term since the 7th century, it was used for several different political-ethnic groups in the history of Central Asia. The Oghuz tribes that are the ancestors of the Turkic peoples of Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan and Turkey are mentioned to have started migrating from the east (Mongolia) towards Turkestan, primarily on the northern banks of River Jaxartes (Sayhun) in today's western Kazakhstan after 775 and before 783; this information is given by the 12th-13th century historian Ibn al-Athir (İbnü'l-Esir in Turkish) who got this information "from a book about the history of Khorasan". In 822, the Tahirids, a dynasty ruling Transoxiana as governors of the Abbasids, sent a group of Oghuz captives to Baghdad, so the Oghuz as an ethnic group were already living in Kazakhstan in the early 10th century (the Abbasid envoy to the Volga Bulgars, Ibn Fadhlan, also passed through the Oghuz around that time).
The earliest references to the tribes that formed the Oghuz tribal union are in the 8th century Taryat Inscription in Mongolia erected by the Orkhon Uyghur Qaghanate; here, two ethnic groups (The Igdir and Aba [which evolved to Yıva later]) that are founded in later lists of Oghuz tribes are mentioned as separate peoples subject to the Uyghur qaghans. The scarcity of sources about the events that happened in Turkestan during the 8th-9th centuries makes it hard for us to reconstruct what exactly happened, but my guess is that the establishment and expansion of the Uyghur qaghanate in Mongolia in 744-745 triggered a big migration of Turkic tribes towards the west and this probably included Turkic tribes and peoples who, probably against the Uyghurs, later united together to form the Oghuz union (we have knowledge of some migrations from the east to the west following the foundation of the Uyghur qaghanate, as after being defeated by the Uyghurs, the Qarluqs were forced to abandon their original homeland at the Tarbagatai mountains in western Mongolia-northern East Turkestan and migrate to the lands of the On Oq tribes in western Turkestan, to the east of Jaxartes).
When Mahmud of Kashghar completed his Turkish-Arabic lexicon in the 1070s, he listed 22 tribes among the Oghuz Turks. However, when the Ilkhanid historian Rashid al-Din Fadhlullah wrote his history book, he mentioned 24 tribes. The 17th century Uzbek ruler Abu'l-Ghazi Bahadur Khan also lists 24 tribes among the Oghuz. Among these tribes, the Charuqlugh mentioned by Mahmud does not exist in others; Rashid al-Din's Yaparlı or Yapurlı and Bahadur Khan's Yasır or Yapar can not be seen in Mahmud's list. Mahmud also does not mention the Qızıq and Qarqın tribes given by the other two.
Another example that hints at how the Oghuz union came to being is the Pecheneg tribe. The Pechenegs are listed as one of the Oghuz tribes, but we know that the Pechenegs were actually a people different from the Oghuz. Mahmud of Kashghar mentions that the Pechenegs and Oghuz were bitter enemies and they always fought against each other; after the Pechenegs were finally defeated by the Oghuz and forced to flee west towards the Pontic-Caspian Steppes, a group of Pechenegs joined the Oghuz tribes and became a tribe of them, incorporated into this tribal union. The case of Igdirs and Yıvas seem to have been something like this as well. It was common in the Steppes for a nomadic people or tribe to join another one; that is why, for example, the tribes among the Kazakhs and Tatars contain many Turko-Mongol tribes that lived in Mongolia before the foundation of the Mongol Empire. After the Mongol Empire was founded, all nomadic tribes in the region were united under the Mongol banner and groups of these tribes and peoples migrated to the newly conquered areas of the empire. That is why, when the Golden Horde in the west was falling to pieces in the 15th century, a large body of tribes broke away from the Golden Horde and formed the Qazaq (Kazakh) union. When you check the list of tribes among the Kazakhs, you can see that most of them are of Kipchak origin (the Kipchaks were the dominant ethnic group in the Golden Horde), but an important number of them are Turko-Mongol tribes that came to the region following the Mongol conquests.
|
|
|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on Apr 17, 2013 4:38:21 GMT 3
Thank you seriously this was really helpful most of them were unknown to me.
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 17, 2013 11:47:31 GMT 3
No problem You can check Peter B. Golden's An Introduction to the History of the Turkic Peoples (translated to Turkish with the title Türk Halkları Tarihine Giriş), where you can find most of the information I wrote above. Faruk Sümer's Oğuzlar is very well too.
|
|
|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on Apr 17, 2013 12:28:09 GMT 3
Thank you again .I will look for them or order from internet
|
|
|
Post by Munkhbayar on Feb 25, 2015 7:52:23 GMT 3
Im mongolian bayat.Are Bayat of Oguz related with Bayaut?
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 26, 2015 12:10:28 GMT 3
Most probably they are not related.
|
|
|
Post by ali bayat on Jan 8, 2017 2:30:40 GMT 3
hellow can you please tell me what is different between bayat az qazilbash? becouse many people says that bayat is one of the clan of qazilbash.
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 8, 2017 16:50:20 GMT 3
The Qizilbash were formed from many Turkmen tribes and clans. Members of the Bayat tribe who joined the Qizilbash must have kept their tribal name.
|
|
|
Post by gem on May 30, 2017 21:16:35 GMT 3
I am Bayad person (Oirat-Mongol). I am confused by the name because on wikipedia it says bayad people can be found both mongol and turkic people. However, ther are no proven relations, i guess
|
|
|
Post by orhon on Jun 18, 2018 15:29:33 GMT 3
i belong to mongolian bayad tribe. wiki says bayads can e found both mongols and turks, which is interesting. another interesting thing is if these two tribes are not related, why their tribal name is same? this caught my interest
|
|