|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on May 7, 2012 18:44:17 GMT 3
I am of Bayat Klan.Bayat are one of the original 24 Oghuz tribes. They arrived in Persia, Central Asia, Transcaucasia, Anatolia as part of the Seljuqs 11th century and second wave came as part of the Mongol army 13th century, today there are still the original Bayats known as Bayid or Bayaut in Mongolia.
The Bayid (Mongol: , lit. "the Riches") is third largest subgroup of the Mongols in Mongolia and was a tribe in Four Oirats. Bayids were a prominent clan within the Mongol Empire. Bayids can be found in both Mongolic and Turkic peoples. Within Mongols, the clan is spread through Khalkha, Inner Mongolians, Buryats and Oirats.
History
The Bayid are originated from Baygud tribes called Jida Baygud, Baygud Duklas, Kheeriin Baygud, who were inhabitants of eastern valleys of Selenge River.
They played influential roles in the Mongol Empire, later becoming part of the Four Oirat Confederation.
So are Bayats of Oguz and Bayauts of Mongol related somehow?
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 9, 2012 10:17:18 GMT 3
I was going to check my books at home yesterday but did not have the opportunity to do so, will do it tonight.
|
|
|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on May 9, 2012 23:13:38 GMT 3
thank you and sorry if I am creating inconvenience .. My contribution to forum is not very productive since I am very new(I dont want to write silly things as newby) but i rather read than write mostly..for now i searched for bayat tribe and more confused because they are everywhere from izmir -narlidere to afganistan so i m totally lost, esp i dont have experience and method in village records it writes they moved from Kerk�k but before they were in Iran (Bayat routes) and in İran there are two Bayat groups one is Mongolian Bayat ,other one Oguz Bayat. My fathers dialect they use lots of words coming from mongolian like caga -for child and anchient Divan ul Lugat it Turk words -degin for squirrel for instance . in most part of Anatolia there is keskek kultur but we don't Their food is simple like yogurt ,kurut ,ayran , pekmez etc no proper recipes. I think they newly settled .. Also my look is very exotic for Turkey . i was thinking mine was coincidence I lately met two more people look like me ..Oguz klan is more caucosoid normally.its unusual ,so i kinda like it as a girl ..but not so important.. There were Eretna(Uygur beg ) ,Dulkadir,Ilkhanade even Memluk in that area ..and very interesting relations between them.
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 12, 2012 14:28:47 GMT 3
Here is how Bahaeddin Ögel examined the ethnonym Bayat in his book Türk Mitolojisi ("Turkic Mythology"):
|
|
|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on May 12, 2012 19:29:49 GMT 3
.yesterday i found one more article about Bayats again but in turkish so i m not sharing here anyway I will continiue to tease my father mongol anyway thank you very much Ihsan bey
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 13, 2012 2:22:11 GMT 3
You are welcome. Appearently Bahaeddin Ögel rejected the theory that linked the Oghuz Bayats with the Mongol Bayits. Oh and btw, Bayats were one of the two Oghuz tribes that settled in my father's hometown; the other was Kayı of whom my paternal side has descended from
|
|
|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on May 13, 2012 5:13:13 GMT 3
so we are of same klan ! nice
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 13, 2012 14:46:02 GMT 3
But my ancestors were from the Kayı tribe, not Bayat; Bayats were one of the two tribes that settled in our hometown
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 14, 2012 1:38:07 GMT 3
|
|
|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on May 15, 2012 2:33:00 GMT 3
thank you Atilla
|
|
|
Post by sarmat on May 15, 2012 23:44:07 GMT 3
Chinese wiki (though without giving any source) states that Bayats, a clan of Khorasan Oghuz had very fierce wars with Mongols (they even killen Genghizkhan's son-in-law Tokchuchar in Nishapur, for which the khan "killed many Bayats") that forced them to flee to the west... zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%B7%B4%E5%B2%B3%E7%89%B9
|
|
|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on May 16, 2012 10:44:51 GMT 3
Thank you Sarmat , may be those Nisabur bayats were mongol.. "Aynı yuzyilda Horasan'da Nisabur bolgesinde de Bayatlar yasiyordu. Ancak, bu Bayatların Turk olmayip Mogol asilli oldukları anlasildi . Onlara, Kara Bayat adi verildi. Asıl Bayatlari bunlardan ayirt etmek için, Akbayat veya ozbayat denilir i am a newbie but i noticed alliences and enemities between klans change time to time ,once they fight later they unite against some other. i found interesting info that Bayats were fighting for a Camoka later they left him fought for Genghis bir bakima Kasgarli Mahmut, Bayatlar'i Turk Oguz oymaklarin dan; Malimut-ul Munse i, Yemek budunundan gosterirler. Mogollarla bir arada yasayan Bayatlar, ilkin zorba Camuka'nin adamlari iken, sonradan Cengiz'in cephesine gecmislerdir. Kanglilar'a bagli olan Bayatlar, Harezm golu ile Hazar denizi arasindaki kumsal bozkirlardan gelip Harezm elinde yerlesmislerdir. Buyuk Selcuklar'in kurulu orgutlenmesi sirasinda, buyuk bir bolumu Siriderya (Inci) ile onun kuzeyinde yasiyarlardi. Bayatlar, Selcuklar ya da Turkmen akiniarina katilarak Orta Asya'dan Ege denizine dek dalgalar halinde yayilmislardir. Bu arada buyuk bir bolugu de goc etmeyerek, Siriderya bolgesinde kalmislardir.www.egriderekoyu.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1534&Itemid=315 another info:They arrived in Persia, Central Asia, Transcaucasia, Anatolia as part of the Seljuqs 11th century and second wave came as part of the Mongol army??BAYAT BOYU ve OYMAKLARI; Genel bir acıdan ele alacak olursak, Bayatları su bolumlere ayirabiliriz: Anadolu Bayatlan, Irak Bayatlari iran Bayatlar-Oguz Kara bayatlar-Mogol Some of them moved to Kerkük from Iran and some came to Anatolia via Kerkuk It is confusing because some of them came earlier from horasan some came via Irak -Kerkuk later.- there is also first wave and second wave migrations to anatolia guess i need to buy this book .. Bayat-Bayat boyu ve Oguzlarin tarihi Mehmet Aydin Hatiboglu Yayinevi, 1984 - 156 sayfa ps:soryy my keyboard is melted under 100 watt lightbulb some buttons are not functioning properly
|
|
|
Post by sarmat on May 16, 2012 22:44:04 GMT 3
Well, the fact that the second wave came with Mongols doesn't prove that they themselves were Mongols. Mongols usually took conquered tribes with them and even formed a bulk of their armies from them. For example, the Mongol army during the invasion of Rus mostly consisted of Kypchaks, at the same time Mongolian emperors in China had a guard formed of Alans and Russians.
But you're right the allegence of the steppe tribes was a very shaky thing, they switched the sides quite often.
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on May 17, 2012 9:48:40 GMT 3
Perhaps the similarity between those two tribal names caused a confusion.
|
|
|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on May 17, 2012 10:34:42 GMT 3
I guess so
|
|