Alexander VS Chengiz Khan

[scythian]

Alexander the great spent a huge part of his career fighting steppe nomads in Bactria, Afghanistan, and Northern Iran. He even married one of them, because he respected them.

Do you think Chengiz Khan could defeat Alexander the Great?


Before you answer, because of Steppe love bias, remember that Alexander built mountains and actually created a land bridge across a mile of ocean to slay the Phoenicians at Tyr.



Alexander repeatedly devastated Steppe nomads and horse archers. Alexander went up against Elephants, and ruined them like Brittney Spear's career. Alexander wanted to keep going, but his men got tired of killing people.

Alexander by himself could run into a crowd of men and kill 5 people outright. In India he was besieging a castle, and he got impatient with his men who were having trouble getting up the ladders. So he rushed up past them all, and then the ladders broke, trapping him alone inside the castle facing a thousand Punjab warriors. They rushed him, and Alexander rushed back, and killed 5 of them like some kind of devastation machine. The crowd of men actually shrank from him, terrified at his killing prowess, and decided to just throw javelins and shoot arrows at him. He got shot right in the lung, and still didn't die.

In a hand to hand fight, Alexander would literally just rip Chengiz Khan's throat out with his bare hands. However, the steppe warrior is clever, and will not allow his throat within reach of Alexander's grip.

Could Temujin outsmart or outflank Alexander? Maybe. Alexander was not easily flanked, and had the best Cavalry of the ancient world.

Who do you think would win in a set piece battle?

[avqust23]

Well I would say Alexander might win because of one major reason: he will not underestimate Genghis Khan.

The Persianate Khwarezmid Empire (which was ruled by a Persian-speaking/Persianized Turkic ruling dynasty) had very arrogant rulers. Due to the arrogance of the ruler, and perhaps the underestimation coming from the Turkic confederacy inhabitants in northern Khwarezmia (who made up the largest population by the way), they did not evaluate the potential danger of Genghis Khan, until it was too late for the empire to hold itself.

Alexander, on the other hand, underestimated nobody, and maybe its because of the fact he was an underdog himself.

I think the Muslim world made Genghis Khan and his sons look more dangerous than they actually were, maybe by using exaggerated figures of death tolls, but certainly because of sheer arrogance seen by the ruling dynasties in Khwarezmia and the Abbasid Caliphate. As a consequence, the Arab, Persian and Turkic muslims all suffered great losses under the hands of the Mongolian invasion. I don't think non-muslim dynasties would've reacted that way. I think they might've taken Genghis Khan more seriously and less naively. But thats just a feeling I get, its not necessarily a true indicator.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Hi avqust23, welcome aboard.

I don't think non-muslim dynasties would've reacted that way. I think they might've taken Genghis Khan more seriously and less naively. But thats just a feeling I get, its not necessarily a true indicator.

Actually some of the non-muslim Turks such as the Qypchaqs also suffered the same.

[Asparuh]

Hey Scythian ! I like your photo .Reminds me of Scythian character played role in Attila the Hun movie.

[scythian]

Aug 25, 2011 2:16:27 GMT 3 Asparuh said:

Hey Scythian ! I like your photo .Reminds me of Scythian character played role in Attila the Hun movie.

Thanks, it's from the game Rome: Total War. It's one of the general icons for Greek factions.

[scythian]

Aug 24, 2011 4:17:13 GMT 3 avqust23 said:

Well I would say Alexander might win because of one major reason: he will not underestimate Genghis Khan.

The Persianate Khwarezmid Empire (which was ruled by a Persian-speaking/Persianized Turkic ruling dynasty) had very arrogant rulers. Due to the arrogance of the ruler, and perhaps the underestimation coming from the Turkic confederacy inhabitants in northern Khwarezmia (who made up the largest population by the way), they did not evaluate the potential danger of Genghis Khan, until it was too late for the empire to hold itself.

Alexander, on the other hand, underestimated nobody, and maybe its because of the fact he was an underdog himself.

I think the Muslim world made Genghis Khan and his sons look more dangerous than they actually were, maybe by using exaggerated figures of death tolls, but certainly because of sheer arrogance seen by the ruling dynasties in Khwarezmia and the Abbasid Caliphate. As a consequence, the Arab, Persian and Turkic muslims all suffered great losses under the hands of the Mongolian invasion. I don't think non-muslim dynasties would've reacted that way. I think they might've taken Genghis Khan more seriously and less naively. But thats just a feeling I get, its not necessarily a true indicator.

I the Great Khan was actualy was the terror that people claim he is. Yet still, I think Alexander would win. Alexander wouldhave used lots of steppe emrcenaries against the Khan. And the Mongol heavt cavalry could never meet a phalanx.

[Modu Tanhu]

The Mongols would win easily no doubt. Djengiz Khan reunited all the Monogolic and Turkic tribes. If not all, most of them. As you know the Mongols and Turkic people were fierce warriors. They are easily considered the strongest and best warriors on earth.

Phalanx?? What is Phalanx? Everything has its weakness. Remember the Turkic and Mongolic people were archers on horseback and they also threw javelins. By repeating attacks they could easily wear down the very slow and heavy phalanx and ultimatily defeat them. Remember, they couldn't shield themselves with that tactic against the Seljuq and Ottomans. The Mongolic and Turkic fighter on horseback were very fast and they are the only fighters who could fire that much arrows in a minute.
When the phalanx is finished the rest is easy, finish the job with the heavy cavalry on horseback Bye byeee Alexander!

[merlkir]

Good grief. Why are there basically two identical threads about this? Please, read the other one, where I explain how Alexander's forces weren't limited to just a phalanx and how he employed horse archers of his own.

[Modu Tanhu]

If you have your own idea's about Alexander the Great, then I also have my own ideas and thoughts about Djengiz Khan.

You say I make bold assumptions, yet you seem so sure of yourself that Alexander would win too?

And here I didn't deny any fact.

[Subu'atai]

We already have a very similar thread here:

steppes.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=board21&action=display&thread=1243&page=2

The tactic Alexander uses is actually quite effective, reversing the use of his infantry/cavalry in his anvil/hammer strategy, with devastating results. Holding the cavalry with his own cavalry and using his infantry to finish them off. The trouble is if his cavalry goes too far away from his infantry, or if his infantry get pinned.

Alexander's tactic against nomads:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Jaxartes

Quite impressive actually, regardless both armies also used "auxiliary" troops, and they both were great leaders of their time. It's really a mystery and endless debate on "who would win". But personally in my opinion, Alexander's brave but rather foolish military behavior charging in the front lines would be fatal against facing the Mongols who do not care about rules of combat!

The Mongol's logistics and intelligence system is also superior to Alexander's and even other steppe nomads so even if Alexander may end up lucky with a tactical advantage he won't gain a strategic advantage with the Mongols. However, Alexander, like Chingghis Khaan, ain't stupid. Both were simply unstoppable. So for now we are still comparing with the limited knowledge of their abilities based only on their past strategies (which were never designed to face each other - and Chingghis Khaan was no ordinary steppe nomad)

[scythian]

There are some good points made here. But we must remember that Alexander was smart, and used the best of everything and adapted to all situations. Alexander appreciated steppe nomads, and would use them.

Alexander also never lost.

Chengiz Khan DID lose.

[H. İhsan Erkoç]

Actually Alexander lost too, he had to abandone the siege of Termessos.

[Subu'atai]

Heh, the truth is, they both probably end up with a truce, with Alexander hitting on Chingghis Khaan, but Chingghis Khaan telling Alexander "WTF bro! I'm not Bi or Gay or whatever the hell!" lol

[hjernespiser]

LOL! It would give new meaning to the word anda.

[sarmat]

With all due respect to Alexander. He would be smashed by Chingiz Khan. Mongol army was technologically just too much ahead of all Alexander could offer (just think that Alexander's cavalry didn't have stirrups and saddles and army didn't have iron weapons). Moreover, his victories were against technologically much inferior enemy headed by a very weak leader. Mongols on the other hand had better weapons, better tactics, better spirit and better leader. I give 0% chances to Alexander.

And after all, even Attila the Hun wins against Alexander, to say the least about the Great Khan... :-)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_pPZjAUQjM


Alexander had no chances. Temujin was even a more superior killing machine.