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Post by abdulhay on Jun 8, 2010 1:22:49 GMT 3
I wonder why the englishman who travled to safavid empire during their regin thought they were persian, even if the spoke azeri turkish in court, even the ottomans who were called turks were more persianzed than the safavids, how come still they were considerd persian, or are they persian?
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Post by Temüjin on Jun 8, 2010 23:07:34 GMT 3
because they ruled Persia? don't confuse the empire with the dynasty.
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Post by shamshirepars on Oct 25, 2010 0:29:01 GMT 3
Because they were Iranians! From the evidence available at the present time, it is certain that the Safavid family was of indigineous Iranian stock, and not of Turkish ancestry as it is sometimes claimed. It is probable that the family originated in Persian Kurdistan, and later moved to Azarbaijan, where they adopted the Azari form of Turkish spoken there, and eventually settled in the small town of Ardabil sometimes during the eleventh century. From maternal side they have Georgian, Circassian and indirectly Byzantine Greek linage and even some go so far to say through this Byzantine Linage they had Charlemagne as one of their ancestors.
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Post by ALTAR on Oct 25, 2010 19:01:37 GMT 3
Because they were Iranians! From the evidence available at the present time, it is certain that the Safavid family was of indigineous Iranian stock, and not of Turkish ancestry as it is sometimes claimed. It is probable that the family originated in Persian Kurdistan, and later moved to Azarbaijan, where they adopted the Azari form of Turkish spoken there, and eventually settled in the small town of Ardabil sometimes during the eleventh century. From maternal side they have Georgian, Circassian and indirectly Byzantine Greek linage and even some go so far to say through this Byzantine Linage they had Charlemagne as one of their ancestors. Shah Ismail was the grandson of Uzun Hasan, Sultan of Aq Qoyunlu. Aq Qoyunlu were from Bayindir tribe of Turkmens. So Shah Ismail had Turkish blood. He and his ancestors had no relation with kurds. His great grandfather Sheikh Safi-ad-din Is'haq Ardabili was born in Lahijan(Gilan Province).
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Post by ALTAR on Oct 25, 2010 19:28:53 GMT 3
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Post by shamshirepars on Oct 29, 2010 3:00:47 GMT 3
The male lineage of the Safavid family given by the oldest manuscript of the Safwat as-Safa is:"(Shaykh) Safi al-Din Abul-Fatah Ishaaq the son of Al-Shaykh Amin al-din Jebrail the son of al-Saaleh Qutb al-Din Abu Bakr the son of Salaah al-Din Rashid the son of Muhammad al-Hafiz al-Kalaam Allah the son of ‘avaad the son of Birooz al-Kurdi al-Sanjani (Piruz Shah Zarin Kolah the Kurd from Sanjar). Shaykh Safi al-Din was a Shafii Muslim, which is the sect that is followed by Sunni Kurds today!
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Post by shamshirepars on Oct 29, 2010 3:18:37 GMT 3
And yes Ismails grandfather married Uzun Hasans sister and his father married Uzun Hassans daughter. But Uzun Hassans mother and wife were both non Turkic. One was Pontian Greek and the other Georgian!
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Post by ALTAR on Oct 29, 2010 12:23:50 GMT 3
The male lineage of the Safavid family given by the oldest manuscript of the Safwat as-Safa is:"(Shaykh) Safi al-Din Abul-Fatah Ishaaq the son of Al-Shaykh Amin al-din Jebrail the son of al-Saaleh Qutb al-Din Abu Bakr the son of Salaah al-Din Rashid the son of Muhammad al-Hafiz al-Kalaam Allah the son of ‘avaad the son of Birooz al-Kurdi al-Sanjani (Piruz Shah Zarin Kolah the Kurd from Sanjar). Shaykh Safi al-Din was a Shafii Muslim, which is the sect that is followed by Sunni Kurds today! The original Safwat as-Safa was written by Tevekkülî b. İsmail b. Bezzaz Ardabilî in 1357. However, there was no copy of this original source. However, there are 2 other versions of the text which was written in XVth century. In one of these Safwat as-Safa script, Shaykh Safi al-Din was called "Ay Tork-e Pir"(Oh The Saint of Turks). So there is no certain proves about his kurdish origins. Because we have no original text of Safwat as-Safa as I mentioned above.
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Post by ALTAR on Oct 29, 2010 12:30:58 GMT 3
And yes Ismails grandfather married Uzun Hasans sister and his father married Uzun Hassans daughter. But Uzun Hassans mother and wife were both non Turkic. One was Pontian Greek and the other Georgian! It means nothing. All of the dynasties in the history had intermarried. It doesn't matter their ethnicity, culture and also religion. Aq Qoyunlu's were Turkmens from Bayindir Tribe. Your ex-shah, Muhammad Reza Pahlavis mother was also Azeri Turk, His wife Farah Diba was half Gilaki half Azeri. So Pahlavi Dynasty was Turk, wasn't it? ;D
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Oct 29, 2010 13:53:21 GMT 3
Your ex-shah, Muhammad Reza Pahlavis mother was also Azeri Turk, His wife Farah Diba was half Gilaki half Azeri. So Pahlavi Dynasty was Turk, wasn't it? ;D LOL following his logic, that's true ;D ;D ;D
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Post by abdulhay on Oct 29, 2010 16:53:09 GMT 3
This cant be true,
the safavids put down a kurdish rebellion, the kurds hate the safavids, why are u trying to prove the safavids as kurd, who are u , are u trying to spam this website
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Post by abdulhay on Oct 29, 2010 16:53:54 GMT 3
also typicall for being kurd is sunni and not shia,
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Post by ALTAR on Oct 29, 2010 17:26:22 GMT 3
also typicall for being kurd is sunni and not shia, Its a bit wrong generalization, Abdulhay. Because there are some Alevi kurds in turkey and some Shia kurds in Iran(Especially in Kirmanshah). I mean there is nothing like that every kurd is Sunni.
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Post by abdulhay on Oct 29, 2010 18:52:33 GMT 3
generalzation or not, the typicall din(religion) of kurds is sunni islam and not shia,
but majority of kurds are sunni, not shia,
I dont know about shia in kermanshah never heard of it, also its spelled kermanshah not kirmanshah, kir is something else in persian.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 2, 2010 0:42:51 GMT 3
In Classical Persian and Turkish, it was Kirmān. In Modern Persian, the "short i" sound has disappeared and it has become Kermān.
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