|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 13, 2012 17:14:54 GMT 3
Dog in Chinese is Quan 犬.
|
|
|
Post by massaget on Apr 13, 2012 20:45:58 GMT 3
And a few other words. gou for example.
|
|
|
Post by sarmat on Apr 13, 2012 22:59:15 GMT 3
I think "Tatar" was derived from Turkic Tat - "foreigner". First it meant not-Turk, and later - not-Muslim. Paradoxically later the Russians began to apply the appellation "Tatar" to all Muslims under their rule. Thus Chechens for instance became "Caucasian Tatars" etc., while in Western Europe "Tatar" was usually synonym of "Mongol". It is a so misused term that hardly means anything anymore. That is not correct. "Tatar" was applied to people who spoke Turkic or Tatar language. Tatar was a lingua franca in Caucasus that's why Caucasians were called "Caucasian Tatars." Russians didn't apply that name "to all Muslims under their rule."
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 18, 2012 9:50:46 GMT 3
And a few other words. gou for example. Gou 狗, Quan 犬, Hao 貉, Ao 獒 and Tong 獞 are all words used for "dog" and some special dog types in Chinese. Nothing like "ta" or "da" here.
|
|
|
Post by siberiancoldbreeze on Apr 25, 2012 13:30:31 GMT 3
But we meet this word as 30 tatars or 9 tatars in both Göktürk and Uygur Petroglifs ..so were they real tatars?
In turkey Tatars are the ones migrated from Crimiea or Kazan Khanate mostly kıpcak ..because where i lived in my childhood i remember many of them carried Kipcak as family name and one of them named Argun..very rare name in Turkey, ..Some of them were very blond and also i remember my friends father he has asian face with sky blue eyes ..very unusual
One of them is my close friend (sitting in same desk) she is drop dead gorgeous and now she is still preserving her highscool face She looks like teenage girl.
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 25, 2012 18:58:34 GMT 3
But we meet this word as 30 tatars or 9 tatars in both Göktürk and Uygur Petroglifs ..so were they real tatars? This is a puzzling matter. The Gokturk and Uyghur inscriptions from Mongolia have the Nine Tatars and Thirty Tatars, but there are no such peoples mentioned in the Chinese sources talking about that period (roughly mid 6th-mid 9th centuries). On the contrary, the Toquz Oghuz and On Oq ethnonyms are attested in those Chinese sources exactly in those styles, as Jiu-xing 九姓 ("Nine Surnames") and Shi-xing 十姓 ("Ten Surnames"), but no such Tatars with "Nine" and "Thirty" number designations are mentioned. The Tatars of Chinese sources appear only after the fall of the Orkhon Uyghur Qaghanate in 840. The 11th century Turkic scholar Mahmud of Kashghar mentions the Tatars are includes them among Turkic peoples. There are also some other 10th-12th century Islamic geography works that mention the Tatars. This has led some modern scholars to think that some of those "Nine Tatars" and "Thirty Tatars" of the Turkic inscriptions might have represented a Mongolic people of the Gokturk-Uyghur periods known by the Chinese as the Shi-wei 室韋 (these were the ancestors of Genghis Khan's Mongols) while some of them were the later Tatars whom Temüjin's ancestors fought and Temüjin vanquished as an ethnic group. Interesting thing is that the name Shi-wei is not attested in Turkic inscriptions, so that hypothesis might have some truth. So we can not say anything certain until new inscriptions are found in Central Asia. One note: the some other Mongolic peoples of the period mentioned in Turkic and Chinese sources have already been identified with each other. The Qïtayn/Qïtañ of Turkic inscriptions are the Qi-dan 契丹 of Chinese sources (these are the Kitan people, known by the Muslims and Europeans as Khitai) while the Tatabï are the Xi 奚 and Ku-mo-xi 庫莫奚, who are known in Islamic sources as Qay (not to be confused with the Qayïġ/Kayı tribe of the Oghuz - once these were thought to be the same, but in fact they were not). But the same identifications regarding the Tatars and Shi-wei have not been universally accepted by all scholars of Central Asian studies yet.
|
|
|
Post by massaget on Apr 25, 2012 19:19:08 GMT 3
And a few other words. gou for example. Gou 狗, Quan 犬, Hao 貉, Ao 獒 and Tong 獞 are all words used for "dog" and some special dog types in Chinese. Nothing like "ta" or "da" here. I found where I read it, its in a 19th century book about history of hungary. You are right nothing like ta ta is mentioned on the net, so its probably false. There would be other sources mentioning it I guess if its true.
|
|
|
Post by Ardavarz on Apr 26, 2012 2:23:34 GMT 3
I've always found funny how the name of Qi-dan/Kitan people has become designation of the Chinese in the form Kitai (from Khitai) in the Eastern European Slavic languages. This always reminds me that ethnonymics is a complete masquerade and the people are seldom called by their actual names.
|
|
|
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Apr 26, 2012 10:00:15 GMT 3
Actually that is normal because northern China was ruled by the Kitans under the name Liao Dynasty between 907 and 1125. Both Muslims and Mongols got their name for northern China during this period and the name survived even after the fall of the Liao Dynasty. The same thing had happened before during the Gokturk period; when the Gokturks first got to know about northern China, the region was ruled by the Northern Wei dynasty of the Tuo-ba (Tabghach) people. Even though that dynasty and it's successor dynasties of Tabghach origin were overthrown in a few decades, their name survived and was used extensively for entire China well into the 13th century.
|
|