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Post by hjernespiser on Jun 1, 2010 6:40:15 GMT 3
Yea it is confusing. The name was used both for the Magyars and the Bashkort (and so was the name Turk!). But as one can read in the Google preview, even the writers of some of the sources knew they used the term for two different groups of people. "Tenth century sources can be divided into three categories. The first contains the works of al-Balhi, who died in 934, and those of al-Istrahi and Ibn Haukal..."
"There are some sources which mention the Bashkirs, but surprisingly, they confuse the Bashkirs and the Magyars. In the group of sources based on al-Balhi, this is expressed by the statement that there are two kinds of Bashkirs. One live at the end of the Guz, behind the Bulghars, and are said to number 2000 people. They live under the protection of forests, and are therefore difficult to attack. They are subjects of the Bulghars. The other Bashkirs, the larger, more populous group, live in lands bordering on the Pechenegs. Both they and the Pechenegs are Turkic, and share borders with the Byzantines."
The other issue is that both al-Garnati and Plano Carpini used the term for both the Danube Magyars and the Volga Magyars. *shrug*
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Post by hjernespiser on Jun 1, 2010 6:55:09 GMT 3
I should be more clear as to what group is being referred to as Bashkir. There were Magyars who ended up somewhere east of the Volga Bulghars and entered into the Golden Horde (some believe that they also assimilated into the modern Bashkirs). It is believed that the Volga Bulghars referred to this group as Bashkir _as well as_ actual Bashkirs. Then we have al-Garnati who first traveled to the Volga Bulghars and headed west on to Hungary who then called the Danube Magyars as Bashkir. He must have picked up the name in Volga Bulgharia, learned who were Bashkirs, then applied the name to the same people he meets in Hungary. Next is Plano Carpini who lets us know basically that the name Bashkir is used for Magna Hungaria (which is a term used in western/gesta tradition for some nebulous original homeland of the Danube Magyars before they came to Hungary). There is no evidence to suggest that the main group of Magyars that ended up in the Carpathian basin were called Bashkir before entering Hungary. The name was used later. On Magna Hungaria: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_prehistory#Magna_Hungaria
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jun 1, 2010 23:25:51 GMT 3
Some of the Iranian historians serving as statesmen for the Mongols during the 13th-14th century, such as Juvaynī and Rašīdu'd-dīn also continuously confused the Bašqorts (Bashkirians) and Magyars.
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Post by Asparuh on Aug 14, 2010 2:05:55 GMT 3
I want to point something about the Avars too.In the same campaign of Carl The Great( No doubt one of the greatest Frankish king in Europe ),Our ;)Khan Krum also helped to destroy the Avar Khanate,.The Avars and Bulgars had longtime conflicts before,so from 805-807 the Avars in Europe doesn´t existed anymore as an independant union.Their remaining were asimilated along the countries that conquered them.In fact the Avars formed part of the Bulgarian army in that period,because they are reminded to be splendid warriors for centuries.
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Post by gmonte on Oct 23, 2010 14:43:19 GMT 3
Read (Theophanes the Confessor) and (Constntine VII de Adminstrando Imperio). They are Greek/Byzantine sources. Both have been translated to English.
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Post by Asparuh on Oct 26, 2010 23:53:05 GMT 3
Yes,i saw these links.Thanks
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