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Post by abdulhay on Jan 9, 2010 0:12:24 GMT 3
I wonder if anyone know if there is a good book about central asian turk history , I rather want to read everything after mongol period
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Post by ceonni on Jan 9, 2010 22:07:14 GMT 3
Manchu General Ma Chang pursuing a Juungar/Kazakh horseman (the kalpak looks Kazakh to be frank, but it was the Manchu-Juungar war, with the Kazakhs siding with Qing) It was painted by the Italian Giuseppe Castiglioni, court painter for Emperor Qian Long www.ming-yiguan.com/viewthread.php?tid=7186also from the same forum: Ming China's war against Japanese bandits. Notice the Yuan influence on Ming costumes. Attachments:
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Post by sarmat on Jan 10, 2010 3:37:35 GMT 3
In fact, there were different groups of Kazakhs opposing and supporting the Oirats. The last independent Oirat ruler, Amursanaa was supported by Kazakh Khan Ablai and even married to his daughter. Initially, Abai refused several demands of Qings to surrender Amursanaa for which they made several expeditions against Kazakhst. They also fought with Kazakhs after the subjugation of Jungaria.
So, that horseman, very possible, could be a Kazakh
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Post by hjernespiser on Jan 10, 2010 7:40:22 GMT 3
It's a beautiful painting. I love how the General has his eyes fixed on his target at all times, not just when he's shooting.
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Post by ceonni on Jan 10, 2010 11:39:08 GMT 3
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ching%C3%BCnjavChingünjav en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ja_Lamaen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zunghar_KhanateNo Qing Chinese painter ever surpassed Castiglioni (Lang Shining) in realism. He is truly a Renaissance Man transposed to China, and giving the touch of Da Vinci to traditional Chinese watercolor and miniature paintings. However, it simply didn't catch on with the Qing painters. You need more theorists from Renaissance Italy to bring the whole system there. But it just died with Castiglioni and the closing of the empire to the West. There are several more Castiglioni paintings of Mongol or Manchu "baturs" that are truly magnificent. You also notice from the paintings, the Qing baturs' reliance on their Mongol-Manchu bow and arrows and the Kazakhs' and Jungaars' utilization of muskets of Russian or Ming origins. The Qing baturs wore chain-mail armors just like their Central Asian adversaries, out of practicality. Later Qing ceremonial armors would discard such diversity, in favor of more decorated quilt armors (you also see more paintings of ethnic Han soldiers equipped with muskets). The Qing Eight Banners, from the paintings of Castiglioni, was truly a grey-clad, hardy army of hunters and nomads not unlike the Cossacks.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Jan 10, 2010 20:05:54 GMT 3
I love that painting.
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Post by Temüjin on Jan 10, 2010 22:18:13 GMT 3
So, that horseman, very possible, could be a Kazakh well it IS a Kazakh, the info that it is Jungar is plain wrong. |
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Post by ceonni on Jan 12, 2010 9:33:56 GMT 3
Giuseppe Castiglioni, Kazakh Horse Tribute to Qianlong Attachments:
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Post by ceonni on Jan 12, 2010 20:34:50 GMT 3
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Post by abdulhay on Jan 13, 2010 3:42:17 GMT 3
can we please get back to the topic
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Post by ceonni on Jan 13, 2010 9:41:45 GMT 3
The Qing-Juungar-Kazakh-Afaqid wars sort of touch on the topic of the post Chagatayid period, which is itself a post-Mongol dynasty.
Do you want something a bit before that?
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