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Kurds
Nov 3, 2009 19:33:50 GMT 3
Post by sarmat on Nov 3, 2009 19:33:50 GMT 3
It's not propaganda at all. It's just the impressions of general Maslovsky expressed on paper. Generally speaking, however, there are many Russian military memoirs from early 20th century, 19th century and early which wrote about Turks and other armies that the Russian imperial army fought. In fact, many of them are very objective and even self-critical to some point. As a rule, however, Turks are discribed there as brave and noble warriors which deserved a lot of credits for their figthing spirit. I also remember reading the memoirs about the war with Tekin Turkmens where one officer even wrote that would want his soldiers to be as brave as the Turkmens were. Pre-communist revolution Russian officers were educated based on chevalier attitude and respect to brave enemies. There is this famous meeting of Skobelev with Osman-pasha after the fall of Plevna, where Skobelev, who, apparently, was the brightest Russian commander, talks about how Osman's glory surpassed the one of his own.
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Kurds
Nov 7, 2009 14:40:18 GMT 3
Post by Subu'atai on Nov 7, 2009 14:40:18 GMT 3
I'll have to take your word for it Sarmat, as personally I can't check this up on my own nowadays. Always have been on a neutral stance with the Kurdish thing, though I oppose the rather pathetic mainstream anti-Turk propaganda. Though I'm not Turk I have no idea where they get their rather odd stereotypes from.
Strangely most people in West believe it (or not really that strange, considering many people are rather stupid). They even argue it! They say ignorance is bliss; means ignorance is happiness. It's as if education is a threat to their 'happiness'.
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Kurds
Nov 9, 2009 18:20:51 GMT 3
Post by terekeme on Nov 9, 2009 18:20:51 GMT 3
No alphabet, no numbers, no culture, no any civilisation, evrytime living under others' management, everytime uprising ( downdescending will come, if you wait a little bit), 4 wife, unknown number of children, female circumcision, changing of sisters to be able to GET an other sister as a wife, claiming that they are folk coming from 3000 years, but no any archeologic fundings proofing YES THEY ARE THE BEST, claiming south east anatolia is part of their secret country, .... What I mean is that there is no need to talk more about such empty man-made creatures.You can not find anything about them.Maybe talking about west and russians supporting them would be helpful..
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Kurds
Nov 9, 2009 20:05:47 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 9, 2009 20:05:47 GMT 3
One thing I find very funny about those Kurds is that their different languages (or dialects) are not mutually intelligeble. A Kurmanchi (North Kurdish) can never understand a Sorani (South Kurdish), for example. Zaza is actually probably not even a Kurdish language/dialect, but a separate language of its own. Two Kurdish villages from different mountains can not communicate with their languages. But eventhough Turks of Anatolia, Uzbekistan and Altai have been living separate in much greater distances in much older times, the speakers of each language can understand each other up to an extent (in some cases like Uzbek and Turkish, you don't have to go to a language school). I can do that, for example, even though I haven't taken any courses on those languages. The Kurds live in much closer areas, yet they don't have the capacity to understand each other ;D ;D
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Kurds
Nov 10, 2009 9:21:17 GMT 3
Post by hjernespiser on Nov 10, 2009 9:21:17 GMT 3
Language is weird like that. That wouldn't be the first case I've heard of very divergent dialects in mountainous regions. I think it has a lot to do with lifestyle and geography. Turks roamed far and wide across relatively flat land and lived a nomadic lifestyle. I think the rather regular linguistic patterns in Turkic languages also promote a cohesion. Mountain people tend to stay in place.
Mutual intelligibility is also weird because the degree of intelligibility can be different, like speaker A may be able to understand speaker B's language quite well but speaker B has more difficulty understanding speaker A's language.
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Kurds
Nov 10, 2009 9:27:15 GMT 3
Post by hjernespiser on Nov 10, 2009 9:27:15 GMT 3
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Kurds
Nov 10, 2009 19:05:04 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 10, 2009 19:05:04 GMT 3
I see. That's the case with Caucasian languages as well.
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Kurds
Nov 11, 2009 15:30:16 GMT 3
Post by Subu'atai on Nov 11, 2009 15:30:16 GMT 3
I understand a lot of hatred against Kurds, many of their current ways are subhuman. But... actually Khagan, if you can, point me out on a topic which discusses the 'right of land' issue in regards to Kurds, perhaps my answer can be given before I even ask the question.
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Kurds
Nov 11, 2009 15:42:36 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 11, 2009 15:42:36 GMT 3
Uhm well, currently I don't care about Turkey's internal affairs nor do I care about the Kurds, so you're free to ask anything ;D Though regarding the "right of lands" thing, I really don't care.
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Kurds
Nov 11, 2009 16:06:12 GMT 3
Post by Subu'atai on Nov 11, 2009 16:06:12 GMT 3
You sure? Ok, as a descendant of lands split up amongst other nations and people having encountered genocide twice, I tend to wonder about the Kurd issue in regards to this. Are they legitimately owners of traditional land on Turkey's territory?
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Kurds
Nov 12, 2009 12:43:57 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 12, 2009 12:43:57 GMT 3
That is a complicated issue actually. The ethnic composition of Eastern Anatolia-Armenia-Kurdistan-Northern Mesopotamia had two major changes, one in the 11th-13th centuries with the Turkish migrations and in the late 19th-early 20th centuries during the Turkish-Armenian-Kurdish clashes. Before the Turks came, today's entire Eastern Turkey (north of Lake Van) was actually Armenia and they even had a kingdom there which was destroyed by the Byzantines. To the south and southeast of Lake Van and west of Lake Urmia was basicly Kurdistan. However, we should keep in mind that "Kurd" is a term used by non-Kurds for a group of related peoples living in this area - they never called themselves "Kurd", and their different languages are not mutually understandable. After the Turks came, Armenia basicly became "Turkomania" as 15th century European travellers and geographers also said. There was of course still a large number of Armenians but the Turks became the majority. An important amount of the lands now claimed by the Kurds, however, had nothing to do with the Kurds in history. The best example of this is the modern city of Diyarbakır (Arabic Āmid, Kurdish Amed, ancient Amida), which was basicly an Arabic, Turkish and partially Armenian city before the 1930s-40s. The name Diyarbakır (which is actually the name of the area outside the city of Āmid, not the city itself), originally Diyâr-ı Bekr (Diyār-ı Bakr), itself comes from the name of the Arabic tribe that had settled there before: Banū Bakr. Before the 20th century, the Kurds were only a minority in this "Realm of Bakr". The same goes for other cities like Mardin. Even though we know the presence of Kurds in this Northern Mesopotamia region (now Turkish "Southeastern Anatolia") before the 20th century, they were only a minority. However, the Kurds were and still are the majority in real Kurdistan, which is between Lake Van and Lake Urmia, roughly the northern part of the Zagros Mountains and the mountainous regions of Southeastern Turkey and Northeastern Iraq. The flat lands the Kurds today claim only became largely Kurdish after the Armenians massacred or made flee the Turks living in the region before the 1920s. Because the Turkish population of Eastern Turkey lost hundreds of thousands of lives, and because the Armenian population in the region was either deported or massacred, it had become almost like an empty land - this is how the Kurds could come down from their mountains and settle here. Another example of the ethnic structure of the region changed can be seen on the lands which are now modern Armenia and Azerbaijan. Today's Armenia was actually a Turkish land which a Turkish majority in the 11th-19th centuries. The same was true for modern Azerbaijan as well. However, during the 19th-20th centuries, the Azeri-Turkish population of modern Armenia and Qarabagh was virtually wiped out (either massacred or sent to other lands) and these lands were inhabited by Armenian settlers who were sent by the Tsarist and Soviet Russian administration. This is why historically Turkic Qarabagh now has an Armenian majority and is in Armenian occupation, even though it was given to Azerbaijan by the Soviets.
Nonetheless, this issue doesn't seem to be solved sooner or later.
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Kurds
Nov 12, 2009 23:06:06 GMT 3
Post by hjernespiser on Nov 12, 2009 23:06:06 GMT 3
Land claims, like language, are also funny. Attila ruled over Hungary and that makes it owned by the Hungarians even though Avars and Slavs had moved in afterwards. Kosovo is Serbian land because that's where Serbs used to live even though mostly Albanians live there now. Ad nauseam...
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Kurds
Nov 13, 2009 12:04:55 GMT 3
Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Nov 13, 2009 12:04:55 GMT 3
Yes, so true ;D
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Kurds
Nov 7, 2011 22:02:25 GMT 3
Post by aynur on Nov 7, 2011 22:02:25 GMT 3
I'm sorry if I am bumping/reviving a long dead thread, but I just couldn't help it. And for the record, what I'm about to say is completely measured by my own experiences with Kurdish people here in Finland.
While the majority of the Turkish immigrants have the capacity to work and establish their own enterprises like restaurants, laundries etc., the Kurds only seem to be picking up a fight or a grudge wherever you see them and usually live on social welfare and many (not all, I'm not generalizing them nor do I want to) of their families must have at least two or three children. When you complain about it, they say it's racism and/or social discrimination. Bullnuts.
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Kurds
Nov 7, 2011 23:18:46 GMT 3
Post by massaget on Nov 7, 2011 23:18:46 GMT 3
Thats the only good thing in a crap economy, no unemployed immigrants lives in Hungary. But we can make a gipsy to kurdish exchange anytime bro
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