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Post by jstampfl on Feb 3, 2013 7:24:20 GMT 3
Just read in the Wikipedia under the subject "Mongols", scroll down to "Religion"
"The original religion of the Mongolic peoples from the time of the Donghu was Shamanism. The Xianbei came in contact with Confucianism and Daoism but eventually adopted Buddhism. In the 5th century the Buddhist monk Dharmapriya was proclaimed State Teacher of the Rouran Khaganate and given 3000 families. In 511 the Rouran Douluofubadoufa Khan sent Hong Xuan to the Tuoba court with a pearl-encrusted statue of the Buddha as a gift. The Tuoba Xianbei and Khitans were mostly Buddhists, although they still retained their original Shamanism. "
So this moves in introduction of Buddhism back to before the 5th century.
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Post by Temüjin on Feb 3, 2013 14:42:07 GMT 3
but it obviously didn't remained popular or it never was really popular with majority of mongols until way later.
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Post by Ardavarz on Feb 3, 2013 23:20:20 GMT 3
This is very interesting. I didn't know that about the spreading of Buddhism amongst Rouran. This could explain the popularity of Buddhism amongst part of the Hephtalites (if the hypothesis of their connection to Rouran is correct - but from the other hand a relation with Kushan Buddhist tradition is also quite probable).
The earliest mentioning of the presence of Buddhism was actually from the Xiongnu era (in a city in Xinjiang if I remember correctly). One of the characteristics of Buddhism (as well as Manicheism) is that it adapts to the native beliefs and often assimilates many elements of them, so adopting Buddhism by some of the Steppe people didn't necessarily mean some radical change of their cultural paradigm. Thus many different religions have existed side by side amongst different tribes and clans for centuries, but their actual demographics is difficult to trace only from the scant data in the sources and some archaeological findings.
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Post by jstampfl on Feb 4, 2013 5:41:35 GMT 3
From the "Timeline of Buddhism" in Wikipedia:
120 BCE: The Chinese Emperor Han Wudi (156–87 BCE) receives two golden statues of the Buddha, according to inscriptions in the Mogao Caves, Dunhuang.
2 BCE: The Hou Hanshu records the visit in 2 BCE of Yuezhi envoys to the Chinese capital, who give oral teachings on Buddhist sutras.[
65: Liu Ying's sponsorship of Buddhism is the first documented case of Buddhist practices in China.
67: Buddhism comes to China with the two monks Kasyapa and dharmaraksha.
68: Buddhism is officially established in China with the founding of the White Horse Temple.
78: Ban Chao, a Chinese General, subdues the Buddhist Kingdom of Khotan.
78–101: According to Mahayana tradition, the Fourth Buddhist council takes place under Kushana king Kanishka's reign, near Jalandar, India.
116: The Kushans, under Kanishka, establish a kingdom centered on Kashgar, also taking control of Khotan and Yarkand—previously Chinese dependencies in the Tarim Basin, modern Xinjiang.
148: An Shigao, a Parthian prince and Buddhist monk, arrives in China and proceeds to make the first translations of Theravada texts into Chinese.
178: The Kushan monk Lokaksema travels to the Chinese capital of Loyang and becomes the first known translator of Mahayana texts into Chinese.
3rd century and 4th century: Kharoṣṭhī script is used in the southern Silk Road cities of Khotan and Niya.
296: The earliest surviving Chinese Buddhist scripture dates from this year (Zhu Fo Yao Ji Jing, discovered in Dalian, late 2005).
4th century: Two Chinese monks take scriptures to the Korean kingdom of Goguryeo and establish papermaking in Korea.
I am posting these to show that there was a lot of activity on the part of Buddhist monks, if you look at the complete timeline you see them going all over Asia.
Think about travel in that era, maybe traveling 30km per day, means a lot of stops among many different people who are traveling or live along the way. Think of the impression to be made by learned scholars would make on the illiterate population of the day. I think the impact is greater than most people imagine.
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 4, 2013 10:54:53 GMT 3
Interesting thing is that both the Tabghach (Tuo-ba) and the Hephtalites were quite agressive against Buddhism before both converted to that religion.
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Post by Ardavarz on Feb 5, 2013 1:48:14 GMT 3
Well, more or less same was the case with the Tibetans.
It is too bad that no one of those Steppe Buddhist traditions has survived - I imagine they were quite interesting (we have indeed some Iranian and Turkic Buddhist texts discovered by the archaeologists, but there isn't a living tradition today). Thus Mongolian Buddhism in its several varieties is perhaps the only representative we have and as such it is a very interesting topic to research even though it's a bit overshadowed by its Tibetan counterpart.
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Post by jstampfl on Feb 5, 2013 9:11:33 GMT 3
Two other interesting items I came across: 1st: From Wikipedia, article about Kublai Khan "Kublai was the second son of Tolui and Sorghaghtani Beki. As his grandfather Genghis Khan advised, Sorghaghtani chose as her son's nurse a Buddhist Tangut woman whom Kublai later honored highly. " 2nd: From the "HISTORICAL DEVELOPMENT OF THE PRE-DYNASTIC KHITAN" by Xu Elina-Qian. link: helda.helsinki.fi/handle/10138/19205"The Hu Qiao Xian Lu jidescribes in detail a variety of the Han Chinese whom Hu Qiao saw in the Khitan territory: There were silk-weavers, officials, members of the Imperial Academy, acrobats, wrestlers, scholars, Buddhist monks and nuns, and Taoist priests. All of them were Chinese, and most of them came from Bing, Fen, You, and Ji prefectures." I think around 900AD. Page 222
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Post by Temüjin on Feb 6, 2013 23:00:16 GMT 3
just because it was known and existed doesn't mean it was widespread or popular with majority of people. mongolia used to be an extremely lamaist country before communism, with a huge number of monasteries, that's just not comparable.
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Post by jstampfl on Feb 10, 2013 3:19:25 GMT 3
"Active Khitan Liao propagation of Buddhism from the tenth century on helped to spread the religion throughout the Khitans' Inner Asian domains." page 34 of "The Great State of White and High"
"...shortly before...1039...the Liao emperor took Buddhist vows..." Page 48 of "The Great State of White and High. Here the author, Ruth Dunnell cites "Wittfogel, Karl A. and Feng Chia-sheng. "History of Chinese Socitety, Liao" in Transactions of the American Philosophical Society.
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Post by jstampfl on Feb 10, 2013 22:28:25 GMT 3
From Wikipedia - Northern Wei
the Northern Wei Dynasty is particularly noted for unifiying northern China in 439: this was also a period of introduced foreign ideas; such as Buddhism, which became firmly established.
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Post by jstampfl on Feb 10, 2013 22:50:30 GMT 3
buddhisminmongolia.wordpress.com/"At that time 3 meter standing tall golden Buddha statue was the main object of sacrifice for inhabitants of southwestern Mongolian Hunnu state. "
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Feb 11, 2013 17:47:36 GMT 3
buddhisminmongolia.wordpress.com/"At that time 3 meter standing tall golden Buddha statue was the main object of sacrifice for inhabitants of southwestern Mongolian Hunnu state. " Even though the Han-shu mentions a golden statue captured by the Chinese from the Huns, there is no detailed information on what exactly this statue was.
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Post by jstampfl on Feb 12, 2013 19:50:33 GMT 3
2/10/13 at 16:50, jstampfl wrote: buddhisminmongolia.wordpress.com/"At that time 3 meter standing tall golden Buddha statue was the main object of sacrifice for inhabitants of southwestern Mongolian Hunnu state. " Even though the Han-shu mentions a golden statue captured by the Chinese from the Huns, there is no detailed information on what exactly this statue was. That is why it is important to list references. So while it is possible, we don't know for certain. btw: How to show the message detail responded to?
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Post by jstampfl on Feb 12, 2013 19:55:08 GMT 3
“As it is prophesized by the Buddha in gLang ru’i mdo, Buddhism spread in Upper Hor country (present area of Qinghai, China) at the same time when Buddhism spread in Khotan also by the power of awakening mind (S. bodhicitta) and inspirational prayer of Buddha and bodhisattvas after 100 years of the Buddha’s parinirvana. (4th century B.C.E)[3]”. At that time 3 meter standing tall golden Buddha statue was the main object of sacrifice for inhabitants of southwestern Mongolian Hunnu state. That statue was seized by Chinese General Huo Qubing in 121 B.C.E during the Han Dynasty. The History of Wei State clearly states that the statue of the worshipped Buddha of that time was the Buddha statue[4].
[4] Tseveendorj, D. (ed) Mongol Ulsyn Tuukh: Volume One..Ulaanbaatar. 2003.
So Dr. Tseveendorj is here refering to the "The History of the Wei State". When I get back to Mongolia, I will check the reference.
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Post by Temüjin on Feb 13, 2013 23:05:05 GMT 3
you're only proving buddhism for northern chinese dynasties who had an uncertain level of control on the mongolian steppe, nothing conclusive to prove that tribes later associated specifically with the mongol ulus were buddhist.
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