Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Sept 9, 2006 19:22:30 GMT 3
This thread has been earlierly opened by the member Müteferrika in the Turkish site TarihForum:
Let us see examples in Turkish and Hungarian:
elma alma apple
elmam almám my apple
elmalarým almáim my apples
ada sziget island
adam szigetem my island
adalarým szigeteim my islands
Ev ház house
evim házam my house
evlerim házaim my houses
çocuku gyerek child
çocuðum gyerekem my child
çocuklarým gyerekeim my children
In Turkish the possessive affix for the first person can take the following
forms after a consonant, abiding the vowel harmony with four forms:
-ým/im/üm/um
After a vocal : -m
For plural –lerim/- larým compound affixes are used, where –ler/-lar are plural forms using the sound harmony with two forms, -ým/im are logically the possessive affixes
The vowel harmony or rule with four forms ( the affix vocal is set according to the vocal in the last syllable of the word) :
i type affix after e, i
ü after ö,ü
ý after a , ý
u after o,u
The sound harmony with two forms:
e after e, i, ö, ü
a after a, ý, o, u
In Hungarian also the vowels can be interconnected through the laws of vowel harmony, the affixes can take two or three forms, usually agree with the last vowel in stem:
a, e (-ban,ben in ) , ((v)al,(v)el with), (ba,be into),(ra-re onto) á,é (nál,nél at),((v)á,(v)é into a) ó,õ (ból,bõl from) (tól,tõl from nearby)
u,ü (ul,ül for ,by) o,e,ö (hoz,hez,höz to )
Exemples: ház házban, kocsi kocsiban,mese mesében ,alma almában,víz vízben, film filmben tükör tükörben,kút kútban,
In Hungarian the possessive affix is –m, all stems with final a,e are altered in á,é before most affixes. The oblique stem is an exception : torok (throat) torkom (my throat) gyomor (stomach), gyomrom (my stomach),dal (song) dalom (my song),
In Hungarian two plural are used –k : gyerek, gyerekek , the other plural -i is used only with person affixes, gyerekeimet my children, in accusative.
Expressing possession,existence:
Bir kalemim var. Egy tollam van. I have a pen.
Ali’nin bir kalemi var. Alinak van egy tolla. Ali has a pen.
Zeynep’in bir çocuðu var. Zeynepnek egy gyereke van. Zeynep has a child.
Cebimde çok elma var. Zsebemben sok alma van. I have many apples in my pocket.
Cebimde çok küçük elma var. Zsebemben sok kicsi alma van. I have many little apples in my pocket.
Kimin kitabý ? Kinek a könyve? Whose book?
Words:
Kim = Ki = Who, çok = sok = many, küçük = kicsi = little, bir = egy = one, kalem=toll=pen
Cebi=zseb=pocket
To express that there is something in Turkish the word var is used, in Hungarian van. Also for the expression of possession var in Turkish,van in Hungarian is used.
The possessed noun in Turkish gets the i, ý, ü,u (the possessive affix of the third person singular, if the word ends with a consonant the si, sý, sü,su ) endings and the possessor the in, ýn, ün,un if it ends with a consonant otherwise it will be intercaleted –n.
Hungarian:
a fiú(-nak a) könyv-e
the boy(-DAT DET) book-3SGPOSS
'the boy's book'
The possessor gets the –nak/-nek endings of the dative case and the possessed noun gets the possessive affix of the third person singular, if we want to express or stress a definit thing, otherwise the simple form is used: a fiú könyv-e
The simmilarity of the personal pronouns.
Kim o? Ki õ ? Who is he/she?
ben én notable simmilarity
sen te
o õ notable simmilarity
biz mi
siz ti
onlar õk notable simmilarity (the third person plural is formed with the use of pluralform from singular)
Also look at the sen te, siz ti forms:
ben>biz én>mi
sen>siz te>ti
The iz form comes up in the turkish affixes for the first and second person plural.
possessive affixes of the first and second person plural
-imiz/ýmýz/umuz/ümüz
-iniz/ýnýz/unuz/ünüz
verbal affixes of the first and second person plural
-iz/ýz/uz/üz
- siniz/sýnýz/sunuz/sünüz
elmam almám my apple
elmamýz almánk our apple
Simmilarity of the question asking particles:
Kim =ki =who Kim o? = Ki õ? Who is he/she? Iyi arkadaºým. Egy jó barátom. A good friend of mine.
(iyi=jó=good, y stands for the hungarian j)
Kiminle=kivel=with whom
nerede=merre,hol
ne =mi =what? Ne var? Mi van? What is ? Or What is available? What can be found?
kaç=hány = how many?
Past tense signs in Turkish: di/dý/dü/du
-after ç, f, h, k, p, s, º, t: ti/tý/tü/tu
In hungarian the sign of past tence is –t
geldim = jöttem I came
yaptým =csináltam I made
geldik== jöttünk We came.
yaptýk =csináltunk We made.
Also the verbal affix -m for the first person singular is the same in hungarian and turkish,the difference is that in Hungarian is used to express a definit thing at present tence.
Thus, there are two first person singular suffixes in the non-past form of the verb : -k is used with an indefinite direct object and -m is used with definite objects. Note that both suffixes also refer to the first person singular noun.
Gazete okuyorum = Újságot olvasok. I read a newspaper.
Gazeteyi okuyorum = Olvasom az újságot. I read the newspaper.
And a film for all of you:
Cebimde Çok Küçük Elma Var - Zsebemben Sok Kicsi Alma Van
elma alma apple
elmam almám my apple
elmalarým almáim my apples
ada sziget island
adam szigetem my island
adalarým szigeteim my islands
Ev ház house
evim házam my house
evlerim házaim my houses
çocuku gyerek child
çocuðum gyerekem my child
çocuklarým gyerekeim my children
In Turkish the possessive affix for the first person can take the following
forms after a consonant, abiding the vowel harmony with four forms:
-ým/im/üm/um
After a vocal : -m
For plural –lerim/- larým compound affixes are used, where –ler/-lar are plural forms using the sound harmony with two forms, -ým/im are logically the possessive affixes
The vowel harmony or rule with four forms ( the affix vocal is set according to the vocal in the last syllable of the word) :
i type affix after e, i
ü after ö,ü
ý after a , ý
u after o,u
The sound harmony with two forms:
e after e, i, ö, ü
a after a, ý, o, u
In Hungarian also the vowels can be interconnected through the laws of vowel harmony, the affixes can take two or three forms, usually agree with the last vowel in stem:
a, e (-ban,ben in ) , ((v)al,(v)el with), (ba,be into),(ra-re onto) á,é (nál,nél at),((v)á,(v)é into a) ó,õ (ból,bõl from) (tól,tõl from nearby)
u,ü (ul,ül for ,by) o,e,ö (hoz,hez,höz to )
Exemples: ház házban, kocsi kocsiban,mese mesében ,alma almában,víz vízben, film filmben tükör tükörben,kút kútban,
In Hungarian the possessive affix is –m, all stems with final a,e are altered in á,é before most affixes. The oblique stem is an exception : torok (throat) torkom (my throat) gyomor (stomach), gyomrom (my stomach),dal (song) dalom (my song),
In Hungarian two plural are used –k : gyerek, gyerekek , the other plural -i is used only with person affixes, gyerekeimet my children, in accusative.
Expressing possession,existence:
Bir kalemim var. Egy tollam van. I have a pen.
Ali’nin bir kalemi var. Alinak van egy tolla. Ali has a pen.
Zeynep’in bir çocuðu var. Zeynepnek egy gyereke van. Zeynep has a child.
Cebimde çok elma var. Zsebemben sok alma van. I have many apples in my pocket.
Cebimde çok küçük elma var. Zsebemben sok kicsi alma van. I have many little apples in my pocket.
Kimin kitabý ? Kinek a könyve? Whose book?
Words:
Kim = Ki = Who, çok = sok = many, küçük = kicsi = little, bir = egy = one, kalem=toll=pen
Cebi=zseb=pocket
To express that there is something in Turkish the word var is used, in Hungarian van. Also for the expression of possession var in Turkish,van in Hungarian is used.
The possessed noun in Turkish gets the i, ý, ü,u (the possessive affix of the third person singular, if the word ends with a consonant the si, sý, sü,su ) endings and the possessor the in, ýn, ün,un if it ends with a consonant otherwise it will be intercaleted –n.
Hungarian:
a fiú(-nak a) könyv-e
the boy(-DAT DET) book-3SGPOSS
'the boy's book'
The possessor gets the –nak/-nek endings of the dative case and the possessed noun gets the possessive affix of the third person singular, if we want to express or stress a definit thing, otherwise the simple form is used: a fiú könyv-e
The simmilarity of the personal pronouns.
Kim o? Ki õ ? Who is he/she?
ben én notable simmilarity
sen te
o õ notable simmilarity
biz mi
siz ti
onlar õk notable simmilarity (the third person plural is formed with the use of pluralform from singular)
Also look at the sen te, siz ti forms:
ben>biz én>mi
sen>siz te>ti
The iz form comes up in the turkish affixes for the first and second person plural.
possessive affixes of the first and second person plural
-imiz/ýmýz/umuz/ümüz
-iniz/ýnýz/unuz/ünüz
verbal affixes of the first and second person plural
-iz/ýz/uz/üz
- siniz/sýnýz/sunuz/sünüz
elmam almám my apple
elmamýz almánk our apple
Simmilarity of the question asking particles:
Kim =ki =who Kim o? = Ki õ? Who is he/she? Iyi arkadaºým. Egy jó barátom. A good friend of mine.
(iyi=jó=good, y stands for the hungarian j)
Kiminle=kivel=with whom
nerede=merre,hol
ne =mi =what? Ne var? Mi van? What is ? Or What is available? What can be found?
kaç=hány = how many?
Past tense signs in Turkish: di/dý/dü/du
-after ç, f, h, k, p, s, º, t: ti/tý/tü/tu
In hungarian the sign of past tence is –t
geldim = jöttem I came
yaptým =csináltam I made
geldik== jöttünk We came.
yaptýk =csináltunk We made.
Also the verbal affix -m for the first person singular is the same in hungarian and turkish,the difference is that in Hungarian is used to express a definit thing at present tence.
Thus, there are two first person singular suffixes in the non-past form of the verb : -k is used with an indefinite direct object and -m is used with definite objects. Note that both suffixes also refer to the first person singular noun.
Gazete okuyorum = Újságot olvasok. I read a newspaper.
Gazeteyi okuyorum = Olvasom az újságot. I read the newspaper.
And a film for all of you:
Cebimde Çok Küçük Elma Var - Zsebemben Sok Kicsi Alma Van
