Pictures of Steppe Warriors

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Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 10, 2006, 10:57pm

i'll try to improve activity on this forum by posting some pics, actually i have a lot of such pics but it will take time to upload them all...

I will begin with ancient warriors.

Scythians:

[image]

Alan, Hun & Sarmatian:

[image]

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 10, 2006, 11:38pm

[image]

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by admin on Nov 11, 2006, 12:26am

Wow thank you very much! I am currently working on the online history gallery of the Turkish Tarihforum site so when it will be ready, I will share lots of more pictures with you 8-)

From which book of Gorelik those great diagrams from? What is it's ISBN number? I want to buy and get it!

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 12, 2006, 12:25am

yeah, definately get that one, it's "Warriors of Eurasia (from the VIII century BC to the XVII century AD)" from Montvert Publications ISBN 1-874101-07-8. it's over ten years old and long out of print, alas Montvert apparently went bankrupt but the few books they published are awesome, unfortunately i wasn't able to get all of them but at last i have that one... 8-)

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 12, 2006, 1:05am

Scythians:

[image]

Hun nobleman & warrior:

[image]

Parthians:

[image]

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by admin on Nov 12, 2006, 3:21am

Thank you very much my dear Shad 8-)

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 13, 2006, 12:37am

Scythian warriors as shown on Ukrainian stamps:

[image]

Scythian archer:

[image]

Sarmatian armored horseman:

[image]

Parthians:

[image]

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 14, 2006, 10:44pm

Herodotus meets with Scythians:

[image]

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by admin on Nov 15, 2006, 2:19am

Again, very nice pictures 8-)

But would you please explain the third picture? What is it's caption?

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 16, 2006, 12:09am

unfortunately i have no idea what those warriors are, i found the pic on the web. but given their appearance, i assume they are either Saka or Kushans perhaps.

i have found a similar picture on a Russian website about the Makedonian & Perisan army in Alexanders time. on the pic you can see a Thracian cavalryman of Alexanders army charging two soldiers of Dariush' army.

[image]

the pick as a weapon was popular amongst Sakas as well as Bactrians. the infantryman also has a Persian shield and a Persian dagger, so i assume those warriors are most likely Sakas from Transoxania/Kwarazm, possibly also Yüezhi/Tokharians...

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by admin on Nov 16, 2006, 1:46am

Ok, thank you

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 18, 2006, 12:00am

[image]

Yüezhi/Tokharians:

[image]

Kushan Kings:

[image]

Red Hun warrior & Kushan warriors:

[image]

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 18, 2006, 10:55pm

[image]

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by admin on Nov 19, 2006, 12:08am

Wow, lot's of Scythians!

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 20, 2006, 11:48pm

now for some Sarmatians. soon i'm finished with the ancient period, then you will see my true treasures but first i have to clean up my huge picture library...

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 9, 2006, 8:58pm

Ostrogoths meet with Sarmatians

[image]

Vandal & Alan warrior in Northern Africa (note that the Alans were annihilated by the vandals prior to teh movement to Northern Africa, so this pic is actually wrong)

[image]

Scythian heavy horseman in combat with Greek hoplites

[image]

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by balamir on Dec 9, 2006, 11:02pm

Any pics about Huns foughting against germanics?

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Dec 9, 2006, 11:40pm

Quote:

Any pics about Huns foughting against germanics?

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7135/step40ojse4.jpg

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by admin on Dec 10, 2006, 12:38am

Very nice drawings, my dear Temujin Shad

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 11, 2006, 12:54am

Central Asian enemies of Sassanians:

[image]

Sughdian warrior:

[image]

Parthian in combat with Sassanians:

[image]

Central Asian allies of the Sassanians:

[image]

Parthians in battle with Seleukids:

[image]

Scythian & Babylonian king meet after the destruction of the Assyrian capital Niniveh:

[image]

Parthians in combat with Romans:

[image]

painting showing scythians in battle with Slavs...

Nomadic Thracians of the Getai tribe:

[image]

Parthain armoured horseman & other ancient warriors:

[image]

and finally:

[image]

now i'm finished with the ancietn period, from now on there will be only Turkic medieval warriors for a loong time... 8-)

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by erdene on Dec 11, 2006, 2:47am

No Mongols???

Heres some....
[image]

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by erdene on Dec 11, 2006, 3:02am

Thought they looked similiar...what about real life pics of warriors????? or do you insisit on it being drawn????

Re: pictures of Steppe warriors
Post by admin on Dec 11, 2006, 12:27pm

Wow, very nice pictures, thank you dear members! 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by kareng on Dec 11, 2006, 10:56pm

Wow. This is great.

Any information about the Xiongnu and their armor--1st century AD?

kareng

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Dec 12, 2006, 12:05am

You can check the "Xiongnu Heavy Cavalry" thread in the Xiongnu and Xianbei Board

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 12, 2006, 12:19am

Quote:

No Mongols???

I will post Mongols later, first up are Avars (after sighting all pics in my lpicture library)...

BTW, are you sure the last pic here shows Mongol warriors? the armour looks like from a later century, much Islamic influence...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by erdene on Dec 12, 2006, 12:25am

Yeah Mongols are supposed to be the ones who are getting killed, not the ones charging...

I will find the description for the pic.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by erdene on Dec 12, 2006, 12:34am

The description says it is 'The battle of Manguberdi'.
Refering to 'Jelaladdin Manguberdi'...?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 12, 2006, 12:40am

thx

mmh, possibly a reference to the battle where the Jelaladin of Kwarazmia defeats the Mongols, but i can't remember the name of the battle at the moment... :-/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 16, 2006, 11:04pm

now to the promised Avars:

[image]

Avar with Bulgar:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by erdene on Dec 17, 2006, 4:44am

You going in order...sorry to disrupt that......when its Mongols turn...I will put some....if I have the ones which you dont have.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 17, 2006, 5:39pm

well no problem, you can post whenever you want

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balamir on Dec 19, 2006, 4:53pm

Quote:

These guy are the Kipchak Turks of Golden Horde,not Mongol

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by ahiskali on Dec 19, 2006, 5:51pm

yeah I see that clearly from the large sign kipchak on there foreheads.

they look pretty mongolian to mee

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by erdene on Dec 19, 2006, 5:54pm

I thought they were Mongols fighting the Teutonic Knights....?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 19, 2006, 8:16pm

yes they are Mongols.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 19, 2006, 8:54pm

Khazars:

[image]

battle bewteen Khazars & Vikings:
[image]

no warriors but cool pic: Rus prince visits Khan of Khazars
[image]

btw, Gorelik himself is Khazar.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Dec 19, 2006, 9:11pm

Quote:

These guy are the Kipchak Turks of Golden Horde,not Mongol

It doesn't matter because they were politicially "Mongols" because of being the subjects of the Mongol Empire. In the Islamic sources, Säljûqid soldiers were sometimes mentioned as "Mongols" or "Tatars" following 1243, when they became vassals of the Ilkhanid Mongols.

Of course the great majority of the armies of the House of Jochi was made up of Qïpchaq Turks. Even the name of the state was Qïpchaq Khanate. But you don't have to keep talking about Turks all the time. At Liegnitz (Legnica), the Europeans fought an army of the Mongol Empire, which was composed of both Mongols and Turks.

I think you are too Turk-oriented, just like how I was when I was at your age

Quote:

btw, Gorelik himself is Khazar.

His name was already looking very Turkic to me

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 19, 2006, 10:11pm

you're not having enough of Scythians, do you?

and some small Sakas:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 25, 2006, 10:48pm

Magyars:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 27, 2006, 1:21am

i've updated a pic on the post with Avars.

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Dec 27, 2006, 7:29am

Danke schön, Temujin!

I thought I had all the nomadic images from the Osprey, but now I see I miss a lot.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balamir on Dec 27, 2006, 6:23pm

I was bored from schytians.Any Tatars?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Dec 27, 2006, 6:38pm

I guess they will come later

By the way, the Magyar plates are great! 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 27, 2006, 11:57pm

be sure i have a lot of pics about Tatars but they come later, the best stuff always comes last!

some of the pictures by McBride who usually illustrates Osprey books are from another book publisher.

some of the best & rarest pictures i have are about Uzbeks & Kalmyks. I have not descided if i should also include pics of Karakhans & Ghaznavids, don't know if i should considder them Nomad/Steppe... :-/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Dec 28, 2006, 12:24am

Quote:

some of the best & rarest pictures i have are about Uzbeks & Kalmyks.

Wow, I want to see Ozbeks. Are they from M.Gorelik?

Quote:

I have not descided if i should also include pics of Karakhans & Ghaznavids, don't know if i should considder them Nomad/Steppe... :-/

Qarakhanid rulers and army were nomadic Turks. According to Barthold, Qarakhanid elite consisted of two Qarluq clans - Yagma and Chigil. Their empire started in the Jetisu region in Talas valley, on the border between modern Kazakstan and Kyrgyzstan.

Ghaznavid dynasty was founded by the Turkic general Alp Tigin from Afghanistan. So the elite and probably the considerable part of the army of Ghaznavids were of Turkic origin.

I think you should include both, especially Qarakhanids.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 28, 2006, 12:41am

Quote:

Wow, I want to see Ozbeks. Are they from M.Gorelik?

no, they are from another Russian painter, he made a series of pictures, i guess from 15th century, it includes mostly Uzebks & their neighbours (Khirgiz, Kazakh & Tajiks), even Kalmyks, Jungars, Mongols and Manchu, but the Manchu look like from a much later period.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Dec 28, 2006, 1:40am

Temujin,

Are you talking about the artwork by L.A. Bobrov and Y.S. Khudyakov?

http://www.zaimka.ru/kochevie/bobrov2_il3.shtml

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 28, 2006, 2:01am

yes exactly!

but those pictures are not the pics i have, except for the one on page 2. can you tell me what those warriors are? are there more of those pics on that site?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Dec 28, 2006, 2:18am

Yeah, I 've seen the pics of Ozbeks and their neighbors by Bobrov.

Illustrations from zaimka.ru (Siberian Zaimka)

- Qirghiz warriors, 6-7 centuries
http://www.zaimka.ru/kochevie/lion_vved.shtml (17 illustrations)

- Defensive equipment of nomads of Central Asia and South Siberia, late Medieval
http://www.zaimka.ru/kochevie/bobrov1.shtml (6 illustrations)

- Equipment and tactics of Eastern and Western Mongols, late Medieval
http://www.zaimka.ru/kochevie/bobrov2.shtml (6 illustrations)

- Equipment of Dzungarians and Khalkha Mongols, late Medieval
http://www.zaimka.ru/03_2002/hudyakov_equipment/ (2 illustrations)

Link I gave above portrays Central Asian (Turkistani) heavily equipped warriors in 16-17 centuries (based on Bukhara and Samarqand miniatures)

Contents of 'Nomadic peoples' section on zaimka.ru:
http://www.zaimka.ru/kochevie/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 28, 2006, 3:00am

wow, thanks a lot, a real treasure has been opened to me. BUT, the pictures of Uzbeks i mentioned are not amongst them.

btw, i didn't clearly understood the descriptions, is the warrior on the right a Cossack? beause he looks a bit like a Zaporozhian Cossack from Ukraine and the description says something like Russian Cossack...

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Dec 28, 2006, 3:16am

Quote:

wow, thanks a lot, a real treasure has been opened to me.

You're very welcome. That's what the sharing is all about, isn't it?

Quote:

BUT, the pictures of Uzbeks i mentioned are not amongst them.

I know. Are you talking about these pictures?

http://www.kyrgyz.ru/?page=213

Quote:

btw, i didn't clearly understood the descriptions, is the warrior on the right a Cossack?

Yes, he's a Cossack.

You can use following website to translate the Russian text:
http://translate.meta.ua

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 28, 2006, 10:57pm

Quote:

I know. Are you talking about these pictures?

http://www.kyrgyz.ru/?page=213

yes, those are the pictures. and that translator is really good!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Dec 30, 2006, 4:39am

You also should include the Qarakhanids because they somehow continued nomadic cultural traditions. But the Ghaznavids did not.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 30, 2006, 8:36pm

ok, I will show Karakhanids...what about Samanids?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 3, 2007, 1:15am

Samanids were of Iranian/Tajik origin.

I would like to see all of them, especially Qarakhanids.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by kokturk on Jan 3, 2007, 1:53am

And AFAIK Samanids were not Steppe Warriors.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 3, 2007, 10:33pm

now to the pre-Islamic Turks:

[image]

Turk warrior from Ferghana valley:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 4, 2007, 4:56am

Wonderful! Thanks a lot!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 4, 2007, 11:42pm

Pechenegs & Kypchaks:

Kypchak:

[image]

Kypchak:

Pechenegs in Byzantine service:

[image]

Kypchaks & Alan in Byzantine service:

[image]

Kypchaks in Habsburg service:

[image]

Pecheneg chieftain:

[image]

the Chernye Klobuki:

[image]

Kypchaks in Hungary:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 5, 2007, 3:12am

Oh wow wow you are going to make my heart stop!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 5, 2007, 11:02pm

Islamic Turks:

Qarakhanids:

[image]

Seljuks:

the battle of Manzikert:

[image]

Seljuks in Byzantine service:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by ahiskali on Jan 6, 2007, 12:34am

Nice pictures

can you give me a discribtion of the one with chinese characters

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 6, 2007, 1:10am

SALJUQ (TURCOMAN)
thirteenth century

from the book Cavalry - The history of a fighting elite - 650BC-AD1914 by V. Vuksic & Z. Grbasic

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 6, 2007, 1:24am

Quote:

book Cavalry - The history of a fighting elite - 650BC-AD1914 by V. Vuksic & Z. Grbasic

How many plates does it have? And how much of the book is dedicated to the Steppe?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 6, 2007, 1:56am

it has 100 full-page plates and some uncolored smaller artwork throughout the few text. out of the 100 color-plates, there is one Scythian (posted earlier in this thread), a Hun (unfortunately don't have it, but great drawing), an Avar (also posted in this thread under the Avars post), the Saljuq posted above, and a Mongol (will post soon). the black&white artwork includes another Scythian, a Parthian, a Pecheneg, a Magyar, another Mongol, and a Saljuq Ghulam. it is hard to estimate how much of the book is about Steppe, but from ancient and medieval period it is perhaps 50% or more, text wise. unfortunately the color plates are mostly dedicated to european cavalry, especially from the age of funky uniforms (17th to 19th century) but it is nevertheless very diverse, the only cavalry missing in this book is perhaps Chinese cavalry, the only eastern asian cavalryman is a mounted samurai. there is also quite a lot about eastern european cavalry (including ottomans) during renaissance.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 6, 2007, 2:13am

Thanks, Temujin! I appreciate that.

If you have a chance, could you please post the Hun here, too?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 6, 2007, 2:46am

if i get the digicam of my sister, i try my best to make half way descend scans of the Hun plate and the plates from the Hun book.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 6, 2007, 2:18pm

Great job! 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 6, 2007, 10:57pm

Kwarazmian warrior:

[image]

Khitans:

Jurchen (again, not sure about their Nomad lifestyle):

[image]

Jurchen assaulting Song Chinese cities:

[image]

Jurchen defending against Mongol assault:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 6, 2007, 11:28pm

Quote:

Khitans:

Jurchen:

Oh, where did you get these plates?

I have a bunch of nomadic images from the same author, but I don't know who he/she is.

AFAIK Jurchens were the ancestors of Manchus.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 6, 2007, 11:49pm

i have those in black & white in a book i bought in China, but i have no idea where they originaly came from, it's a series of pictures showing Chinese warriors from ancient times to the Qing (manchu) dynasty. can you also post your pictures about Nomads? I know Jurchen are ancestors of Manchu, but i also don't know if Manchu can be considdered Steppe people or not... :-/

thinking about it, i'm also unsure if Soghdians are Steppe people or not, but Gorelik has them in his book so i posted them.

btw, next are Mongols, so Erdene, your time has come!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 10, 2007, 8:44pm

actually now for some more Huns first, i will probably post the first load of Mongol pics this weekend.

[image]

i'm especially unhappy with this pic because it shows Alans fighting on foot as Germanic infantry instead of Steppe warriors.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 10, 2007, 10:19pm

Thanks for the great post!

Quote:

can you also post your pictures about Nomads?

I will definitely do so in a short while.

Quote:

thinking about it, i'm also unsure if Soghdians are Steppe people or not, but Gorelik has them in his book so i posted them.

Soghdians were sedentary. The region of Mawarannahr is the traditional sedentary center of Turkistan.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 10, 2007, 10:48pm

Quote:

I know Jurchen are ancestors of Manchu, but i also don't know if Manchu can be considdered Steppe people or not... :-/

I think they manifested the nomadic culture throughout their history.

Although, today, they are heavily sinicized.

Nurhaci Khan, the founding father of the Manchu empire, leads his troops into the conquest of China

[image]

Kangxi Emperor (1654 – 1722)

[image]

Camp of Qianlong Emperor (1711 – 1799)

[image]

Qianlong Emperor in ceremonial armour on horseback
(by Giuseppe Castiglione)

[image]

One of the Qianlong Emperor's Manchu bodyguards

[image]

Manchu leader Macan persues Qazaq (Kazak) nomad (by Giuseppe Castiglione)

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 10, 2007, 11:12pm

very nice pictures!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by erdene on Jan 11, 2007, 5:52pm

You put yours up.....if I have the ones you don't then I will put them up

You have nice collection and soon I will have a nice collection

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 11, 2007, 11:01pm

OK...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 12, 2007, 1:21am

Very good pictures!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balamir on Jan 12, 2007, 6:03pm

Nice pics.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 12, 2007, 11:02pm

Mongols:

Kubilai Khan receives the subjugation of Tibet
[image]

Golden Horde:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 13, 2007, 1:34am

Quote:

Kubilai Khan receives the subjugation of Tibet
[image]

I thought this was Chinggis Khan receiving the subjugation of Western Xia :-/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 13, 2007, 8:18pm

no, the book contains another picture that shows the conquest of XiXia where their king is beheaded before a Mongol Khan (Ögödai i think). ufnortunately i have only very few of the pictures from that book. :-/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 13, 2007, 8:44pm

Temujin, good job!

I believe the authour of Golden Horde plates is the Russian guy called Tszys. I have some ther plates of his and will post them later.

Where did you get yours?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 13, 2007, 8:56pm

i found them on the internet, they are from the Russian book Kulikovo Polje 1380.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 13, 2007, 9:15pm

more Mongols...

[image]

Galdan Boshktu-Khan:

[image]

Mongols in Russia:

[image]

Mongol warlord:
[image]

battle of Liegnitz:
[image]

Hülägü in the siege of Baghdad:
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 14, 2007, 12:53am

Quote:

no, the book contains another picture that shows the conquest of XiXia where their king is beheaded before a Mongol Khan (Ögödai i think). ufnortunately i have only very few of the pictures from that book. :-/

Ah ok I see, I guess I was wrong :-/

Thank you for the correction

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by erdene on Jan 14, 2007, 10:44pm

Nice thanks alot

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 15, 2007, 12:00am

[image]

battle of Indus river:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 15, 2007, 9:42pm

[image]

battle of Liegnitz:

[image]

Batu Khan gettign plans of Rus territory from a Russian spy:

[image]

young Temujin and his brother shoot Bekther:

[image]

Chinggis Khaan paints the thumbs of prince Kubilai with blood after a hunt:

[image]

Hülägü supervises the construction of an astronomcial observation tower:

[image]

Hülägü confronts the Abbasid Caliph after his capture of baghdad about his wealth:

[image]

dismounted Mongol archers fighting Burmese war-elephants in the jungle:

[image]

military parade before Kubilai Khan:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 20, 2007, 12:22am

conquest of Kwarazm:

[image]

Batüs conquest of the Rus:

[image]

battle of Liegnitz:

[image]

battle of Mohi:

[image]

Hülägüs army besieges the Assassins stronghold:

[image]

subjugation of Rus:

[image]

i think those are from the Mongol-Tatar weapons and armor book by Gorelik:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 20, 2007, 1:35am

[image]

Mongol at Liegnitz:

[image]

Il-khanid warrior:

[image]

Golden Horde warriors:

[image]

Yüan warriors:

[image]

the duel between Peresvet and Temür-Mirza at the battle of Kulikovo:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 21, 2007, 2:59am

Timurids:

[image]

Timurids fighting war elephants from Delhi:

[image]

Jalayrid & Aq or Qara Qoyunlu:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 21, 2007, 10:20pm

I have added few pictures of Jurchen on page 5.

i am now finished with Medieval period. the pictures of Uzbeks etc from 15th-16th century you can see in the links posted by Bawirsaq, no reason to post them again. next up are Tatars from ex-Golden Horde, Kalmyks, Cossacks and other Steppe people serving in the Russian army - or not!

as well as Manchu and (Khalkha) Mongols from Qing empire. btw are Bashkirs Steppe people too?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 22, 2007, 12:45am

Three corrections:

1) The Battle of Manzikert is actually the Battle of Myriokephalonia
2) Conquest of Khwârazm is actually the capture of a Russian prince (and that town in the background is Russian too)
3) Timurids fighting Delhians is actually Chinggisid Mongols fighting Delhians

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 22, 2007, 12:58am

no, i have those books and they say what i have written

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 22, 2007, 2:25am

Temujin,

Bashkirs are definitely nomadic people, although their steppes are rather foresty )

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 22, 2007, 2:45am

Quote:

no, i have those books and they say what i have written

Ah excuse me :-[

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 22, 2007, 2:54am

but i agree the pictures are not very accurate, the plate showing the battle of Ayn Jalut even has pyramids in the background and the mamelukes wear armor & weapons from later periods but mostly new kingdom egypt.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 22, 2007, 6:46am

Quote:

the plate showing the battle of Ayn Jalut even has pyramids in the background.....

What? Did I miss Ayn Jalut??

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 22, 2007, 6:25pm

no, i didn't posted it because it is too inacurate and you don't really see any Mongols closely...i also didn't posted 2 pictures of the Japanese invasion for the same reason but if you want, i'll post them.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 22, 2007, 6:30pm

Oh man I know that picture and I always had been wondering what the hell is was with Mongols and Mamlûks fightşng near the Pyramids

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 22, 2007, 7:32pm

Quote:

no, i didn't posted it because it is too inacurate and you don't really see any Mongols closely...i also didn't posted 2 pictures of the Japanese invasion for the same reason but if you want, i'll post them.

Could you pls post them just for the sake of interest? Thanks in advance

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 22, 2007, 7:47pm

sure

battle of Ayn Jalut: ::)

note the mostly ancient equippment of the Mamluks

Invasion of japan:

[image]

(2 pictures)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 22, 2007, 8:34pm

Thanks!

That's fun

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 22, 2007, 9:37pm

i have forgotten one:

Mongol (3) & Sughdian (1) warrior:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 23, 2007, 1:38am

Oh man that 'Ayn Câlût picture is obviously a disaster!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 23, 2007, 1:48am

yeah, unfortunately the book about Mongols is the only one of the series which was not illustrated by McBride... :-(

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 23, 2007, 7:08am

Quote:

yeah, unfortunately the book about Mongols is the only one of the series which was not illustrated by McBride... :-(

Fighting Man series?

The artist Liu Yong Hua seemed to be fine with the previous Mongol plates posted earlier by you (Khwarazm, Rus, Europe).

What got into him with the Mamelukes?? :-/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 24, 2007, 11:02pm

yes, Fighting Man series by Concorde publications...

personally, i think he is a good artist, but most of his pictures are not very accurate, for my taste there are too many elements of Chinese armour and weaponry for the Mongol warriors and such mistakes as here. the Kwarazmian soldier has a helmet that didn't existed yet in 12th century. the Europeans are more or less Ok.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 29, 2007, 12:15pm

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balamir on Jan 29, 2007, 9:41pm

Are these guys Crimean Tatars?Or Khazan Tatars?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 29, 2007, 9:53pm

Crimean Tatars (&above):

[image]

Lithuanian & Kazan Tatar:

[image]

Kalmyk & Nogai Tatar:

[image]

just Kalmyks:

[image]

just Nogais:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 30, 2007, 8:26am

Weapons and armor of 18-century warriors of Turkistan and Iran

[image]

Some images from the book "Armies of the Turkic peoples" by Polish artist Andrzej Michalek

[image]

Turkic warriors of Saladin

[image]

Qipchaqs or Mongols on the battle of Lake Peipus

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jan 30, 2007, 9:01am

Battle of Liegnitz

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by aca on Jan 30, 2007, 6:26pm

These are great !!!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 30, 2007, 9:48pm

Quote:

These are great !!!

Indeed they are 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 30, 2007, 10:59pm

now to my favourite topic, Cossacks! 8-)

Ermak conquers the Sibir Khanate:

[image]

Zaporozhian Cossacks:

[image]

Cossacks in Polish service:

[image]

Cossacks in Russian service:

[image]

Cossacks & Kalmyks during Great Northern War:
[image]

Cossacks & Kalmyks during Seven Years War:
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Feb 1, 2007, 12:14am

Interesting and nice pictures 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by aca on Feb 1, 2007, 3:54pm

Thanks Temujin

Few days ago I was looking for some Cossack pictures on the net and I wasn't pleased with the ones I found. These, on the other hand, are great. Thanks again.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 2, 2007, 12:16am

no problem.

most following pictures are original contemporary drawings.

Napoleonic (mostly uniformed) Steppe soldiers:

irregular Bashkir horseman 1812:

[image]

Lithuanian Tatars, Regiment Buranwosky 1799:

[image]

"Kirghiz" (Kazak) irregular horseman 1812:

[image]

Nogai & Crimean Tatar 1805:

[image]

Bashkir & "Kirgiz" (Kazak) 1805:

[image]

Kalmyks 1805:

[image]

Kalmyk 1812:

[image]

General Platov, Ataman of the Don Cossacks:

[image]

Lithuanian Tatars & Don Cossacks (& Bashkir?) 1799:

[image]

Ural & Siberian Cossacks 1799:

[image]

Gunner, Don Horse Artillery battery 1812:

[image]

2nd Ukrainian regiment 1812:

[image]

Lifeguard Black Sea Cossacks Squadron 1812:

[image]

Cossack General 1812:

[image]

Don & Bug Cossacks:

[image]

Offcier of the Ataman Regiment 1812:

[image]

Offcier of the Lifeguard Cossack Regiment 1812:

[image]

Cossacks 1805:

[image]

Black Sea Cossacks 1805:

[image]

Don Cossacks 1799:

[image]

Ural Cossacks 1799:

[image]

Ural Cossack 1812:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 2, 2007, 12:31am

Lithuanian Tatars of Napoleons Imperial Guard:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Feb 2, 2007, 1:29am

Interesting, I didn't know that there were Turkic and Mongolic troops fighting in the Napoleonic Wars

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 5, 2007, 11:46pm

in bewteen some Manchus & Mongols:

Mongol Cavalry during Boxer war:

[image]

Manchu bannermen in uniform-armor:

[image]

Manchu cavalryman during Opium wars:

[image]

Manchu & Mongol cavalrymen during Taiping rebellion:

[image]

Manchu bannerman in uniform-armor:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Feb 6, 2007, 6:42am

Temujin,

I love those 1805 year German paintings! Can you tell me the source and the name of the author.

Here're some paintings with English titles:

Bashqort trooper

[image]

Qazaqs (mistakenly called "Kirgiz" by tsarist Russians)

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 6, 2007, 10:35pm

Bawirsaq, the picture series from 1805 with the many "exotic" soldiers is by Voltz, the collection is called "Russisches Militär" (Russian military) which are now to be found in the Landesbibliothek Darmstadt. there is another set of pictures which i didn't posted dating from 1807 which are not colored, but you can clearly recognize the troops:

Cossacks:

[image]

Nogai Tatars:

[image]

Kazaks (inaccurately labeled Kalmyks):

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Feb 7, 2007, 3:50am

Wow, the last pic is great!

Kazaks versus Cossacks
Post by bawirsaq on Feb 7, 2007, 5:23am

Kazaks versus Cossacks

[image]

Russian painting by Orlovsky A.O., 1826

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 7, 2007, 8:59pm

Quote:

Wow, the last pic is great!

yes, unfortunately it is not in color... :-(

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 12, 2007, 9:43pm

sorry for no new pictures this weekend, i planned on a bigger update, but i'm no longer sure if Circassians/Cherkess qualify for this thread. that said i have some really cool pictures about them that most of you will probably find interesting.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Feb 12, 2007, 9:55pm

Circassians are definitely not steppe people. But you can always open a new thread in General World History, can't you?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Feb 17, 2007, 7:32am

Yes, I agree with Bawirsaq Yabghu.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 18, 2007, 12:52am

Ok, i already planned to do another topic after this one about people that have Steppe influenced warriors or have influenced Steppe warriors.

but first i finish this topic with 20th century Steppe warriors:

Russian expedition to Kukunor Steppe to find the Przewalski Steppe Horse (not sure which time period):
[image]

Cossacks in the Russo-Japanese war 1904-05:
[image]

Cossacks ww1:
[image]

ww1 Terek Cossacks:
[image]

ww1 Kuban Cossack Plastun (infantry):
[image]

ww1 Orenburg Cossack:
[image]

ww1 Don Cossacks:
[image]

Azerbaijanian Army, Russian Civil War (left & center):
[image]

Mongol Red Army Horseman, Russian Civil War:
[image]

Uzbek Rebel, Russian Civil War:
[image]

Ukraine during the Russian Civil War:
[image]

Red Army Bashkir Horseman, Russian Civil War (left):
[image]

Red Army Kuban Cossack, Russian Civil War (right):
[image]

Red Army Bashkir & Kuban Cossack, Russian Civil War:
[image]

Kornilov's Kuban Cossack Regiment (White Army), Russian Civil War:
[image]

Ataman Annenkov's Partizan Division (White Army), Russian Civil War:
[image]

"common" Cossacks of the White Army, Russian Civil War:
[image]

Cossack in the Italian Army, ww2:
[image]

Red Army Cossacks, ww2:
[image]

Wehrmacht Cossacks, ww2:
[image]

Wehrmacht Cossack & Kalmyk, ww2:
[image]

rare Wehrmacht Cossacks color photogrphy:
[image]

Kuban Cossacks at the Victory Parade in Moscow 1945:
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 19, 2007, 12:32am

more Steppe people in the Wehrmacht:

Azerbaijanian volunteer (right):
[image]

Turkestani soldier, Volga-Tatar and Turkestani worker:
[image]

Turkestani in Waffen SS (in the background mounted north-Kaukasian volunteers):
[image]

Cossack Gebirgsjäger (mountain-infantry), Cossack 1st Don Volunteer Regiment and Cossack from von Jungschultz Cavalry Regiment:
[image]

Cossack from Regiment "Platov", Cossack from 360. Cossack Grenadier Regiment von Renteln (foreground) and Cossack cavalry officer (background):
[image]

bodyguard of General von Pannwitz, Sibir Cossack from 2. Regiment and Colonel Kononov, commander of 5. Don Regiment:
[image]

Terek Cossack from 6. Regiment (left):
[image]

Cossacks in Italy:
[image]

concept artist Ganbat
Post by bawirsaq on Feb 23, 2007, 10:24am

Pictures of online concept artist Ganbat from Mongolia

scetches first

Warriors of Genghis Khan

[image]

Amazon

finished works:

[image]

More here: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=62076

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 23, 2007, 11:34pm

those are awesome!!

Xiongnu
Post by bawirsaq on Feb 24, 2007, 10:26am

Xiongnu by military historic illustrator Angus McBride

[image]

from the book Attila and the Nomad Hordes

Xiongnu by Russian scholar Michael Gorelik

[image]

Xiongnu (http://www.99read.com/subject/060809_xiongnu.aspx)

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 24, 2007, 8:17pm

I've already posted the first two pictrues in this thread

Quote:

mmh, those look more like Avars, are you sure Gorelik says those are Xiong-Nu? :-/

Quote:

thats the Hun from the Cavalry book i mentioned. 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Feb 24, 2007, 11:45pm

Quote:

I've already posted the first two pictrues in this thread

I know, sorry

Quote:

mmh, those look more like Avars, are you sure Gorelik says those are Xiong-Nu? :-/

It was entitled "Potok gunnov" ("Stream of Huns")

The guy on the left has an artificially elongated skull which was fashionable among the Xiongnu.

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Feb 25, 2007, 12:13am

Great pictures, thank you guys

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 25, 2007, 1:17am

Quote:

It was entitled "Potok gunnov" ("Stream of Huns")

The guy on the left has an artificially elongated skull which was fashionable among the Xiongnu.

[image]

well, the helmets and the wolf-banner look more Avar, also, there was no chain-mail armour in east asia until after the Mongols. only the soldier you mentioned looks like a Hun, the rest looks just like on the pictures i posted with Avars.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by erdene on Feb 27, 2007, 4:37pm

WOW mind blowing pics.....sat here in a state of trance for the last few minutes!!!!!!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 27, 2007, 9:57pm

for Bawirsaq:

find the Kazak

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Feb 27, 2007, 10:36pm

Very easy one

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Feb 28, 2007, 1:21am

Quote:

for Bawirsaq:

find the Kazak

Thanks.

Can you give more info on the picture pls?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 28, 2007, 8:53pm

must be Cossacks in Paris by the looks of it. it is definately from the reign of Alexander I and it is said that the girls of Paris were very attracted by the Cossacks. also, the city in the background looks pretty huge, so i guess this picture shows Cossacks at leisure in Paris after its conquest by the Allies in 1814.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Mar 4, 2007, 2:26am

Thanks. There were some irregular Kazak troops in Russian army during Napoleonic wars.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Mar 4, 2007, 9:41pm

I saw this book in the bookstore of the New Bulgarian University of Sofia and I couldn't resist taking a photo of it's cover

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Mar 4, 2007, 10:40pm

Khan Kubrat...

while we're at Bulgars...a Bulgar on AE has posted those two lovely female Volga-Bulgar warriors at AE:

[image]

more Bolgars:
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Mar 13, 2007, 9:46pm

more Scythians:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by ahiskali on Mar 14, 2007, 12:23am

thanks Temujin there awsome

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Mar 14, 2007, 2:37pm

Awesome Scythians, great artwork, where did you find them?

Quote:

Hmm this rider has the tamgha of the Qayï (Kayı) tribe of Oghuz Turks on his banner :-/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Mar 14, 2007, 10:09pm

I have found it here: http://community.imaginefx.com/fxpose/johnny_shumates_portfolio/default.aspx

don't know about that picture with the Tamga, it was posted by a Bulgar...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Mar 15, 2007, 9:29pm

Hmm ok I see, thanks...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Mar 15, 2007, 11:21pm

soemone asked about the symbol on the flag too and this was the response:

"The IYI is usually considered to be the sign of the house of Dulo, the first and possibly greatest ruling dynasty in Early Medieval Bulgaria. Of course, there's also a theory that it represents Tangra, presumed to be the Bulgar god. The first thesis is most widely accepted. "

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Mar 16, 2007, 12:18am

That is very strange, I wonder when the Bulghars started using that symbol :-/

Btw, here is a photo of two Tatar soldiers from the Turkistan Legion of the German Army of WWII:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on May 15, 2007, 12:42am

I found some very nice photos and pictures about the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905 in CHF. Here are the photos which have Cossacks in them:

[image]

Kozaks in North Korea

[image]

Kozaks in a cross fire

[image]

Kozaks attacking enemy position

[image]

Poem about Russian-Japanese War

[image]

Kozaks

Kozaks in patrol meet wolfs

Source: http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=16469

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on May 23, 2007, 11:02pm

more Cossacks....

Bashkir:

[image]

Cossacks & Kalmyk:

[image]

Cossacks through the ages:

[image]

and especially for Bawirsaq:

Kazak troops vs Württemberg cavalry in the 1812 campaign. so it seems the soldiers of our two nations have met in battle already...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on May 23, 2007, 11:18pm

Quote:

and especially for Bawirsaq:

Kazak troops vs Württemberg cavalry in the 1812 campaign. so it seems the soldiers of our two nations have met in battle already...

Wow, thanks, it's an awesome pic

Could you please tell me the source or author?

Many soliders in "Cossacks through the ages" look Middle-Eastern

Who's the painter?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on May 23, 2007, 11:35pm

i will try to find out about the source & author...

the plates are from a very old osprey book (MaA 13), the illustrator is not very skilled, i agree, it is Michael Youens. also i think the years on the first plate are not very accurate.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on May 24, 2007, 10:28pm

the picture is called "Württembergische Kavalleristen im Kampf mit Baschkiren" (= Württemberg cavalrymen in combat with Bashkirs) by the painter Johann Baptist Seele, paintet in 1813/14.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on May 25, 2007, 4:09am

Thanks, it still is an awesome pic of the nomadic warriors.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by nisse on May 28, 2007, 2:47am

are there any pic of seljuks and gök turk, also the xiong nu

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on May 28, 2007, 8:47pm

Why don't you look through the pages?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by nisse on May 29, 2007, 3:41am

daamn it took some time to watch all the pic

nice pic

, ´where do you find them te´mujin

I didnt see any gök turk

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on May 29, 2007, 4:07pm

Check it more carefully

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on May 29, 2007, 8:27pm

Quote:

daamn it took some time to watch all the pic

nice pic

, ´where do you find them te´mujin

I didnt see any gök turk

most of them are from osprey or similar books.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by nisse on May 29, 2007, 8:45pm

aha, ok, have you bought the books

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on May 29, 2007, 9:00pm

i own most of those, other pics i simply found on the web.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by eolas on May 30, 2007, 9:30pm

Quote:

daamn it took some time to watch all the pic

nice pic

, ´where do you find them te´mujin

I didnt see any gök turk

Look at first pages. I saw.

Great pictures Temujin. İt takes too many times to save every pic but ı am happy for this work.
I would appreciate that if u have pics about romans, greeks, celts or other civilazations?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on May 30, 2007, 9:43pm

Quote:

i have hundreds of pictures about those and much more civilizations, i could fill a whole subforum with them!

but if i find the time i will open a topic about civilizations whose warfare was influenced by, or that influenced on, Steppe warfare... i have originally planed this but postponed after migration of the forum.

BTW, most of those pictures were illustrated by Angus McBride who died on 15th this month, so we are not going to see more of his beautiful artwork in the future... :'(

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on May 31, 2007, 12:13am

Ahhh I'm very sad to hear that! Too bad he died! May he rest in peace :'(

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by nisse on May 31, 2007, 2:13am

sad that he passed away

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by eolas on Jun 8, 2007, 7:17pm

Finally, ı finish the saving all pics. Thanks guys.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 3, 2007, 10:34pm

I like the small pictures of the Sakas.They have great armour.Does anyone have a greater version of these drawings so that details become more visible?
I like to collect drawings of steppe warriors. Unfortunately for me the format of the saka warriors is to small.A greater version would be great to add to my collection.

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 3, 2007, 10:40pm

which pictures you mean?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 3, 2007, 11:05pm

I mean the 2 small pictures on page 3, below the great picture of a scyth warrior.
The Saka cavalryman is wearing an early cataphract armour.

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 4, 2007, 4:13pm

I'm looking for good drawings/pictures (other than the ones in the Osprey books) of warriors wearing (early) cataphract armour.
I know Gorelik and other Russian artists/historians have made some good drawings of cataphract warriors, but these books or pictures are very hard to come by over here in Belgium.
Can anyone help me in my search for good drawings?

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 4, 2007, 8:23pm

i posted all pictures i have... unfortunately i don't have those two pictures in a bigger size than that, i would like to have them bigger too, they are really nice.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 4, 2007, 9:28pm

Hello cataphract, welcome to SHF!

Unfortunately, I also don't have any more pictures

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 5, 2007, 12:59pm

I assume those 2 small pictures of the saka warriors come out of a book.If so what title does the book have?
Is it possible to photocopy them for me directly out of the book and send the copies to me by mail?Scanning them out of the book and sending them by e-mail would even be better, but I don't know if you've got the possibility to do this.This way the images could be enlarged.I'll pay for all costs.I would be very grateful.
If I first download the pictures and then photocopy or scan them, a whole lot of detail is lost.If the pictures are copied or scanned right out of the book, this detail won't be lost.
Do you think that the one wearing the curious armour (breast-armour and metal skirt) is a cavalryman or an infantryman?Would it be easy to ride a horse with this skirt?
Thanks
Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 5, 2007, 3:02pm

Quote:

Do you think that the one wearing the curious armour (breast-armour and metal skirt) is a cavalryman or an infantryman?Would it be easy to ride a horse with this skirt?

He looks like a cavalryman indeed. You can see such warriors on golden cups found in Scythian graves.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 5, 2007, 10:00pm

unfortunately i have no idea if they are from a book or not :-/

if they are froma book i would surely get that book.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jul 6, 2007, 9:13am

Which Saka pictures are you talking about?

Can you re-post them?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 6, 2007, 10:12pm

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 6, 2007, 10:16pm

We are talking about the 2 small pictures on page 3.
If you have no idea if the pictures are out of a book or not, where did you get hold of these pictures then? Maybe the internet?
Something about the armour the infrantryman is wearing.
I knew the Sakas or eastern Scyths used laminated bands (O-rings) to protect the 2 separate
upper legs.From this there is archaelogical evidence. I did not know however of Sakas wearing a bronze cuirass and iron armed skirt (made as a whole) which was constructed of large laminated bands covering a part of the upper legs(see image on page 3).
Can you tell me something more about the evidence of this armour on golden cups as you mentioned? Do you have pictures of this?
Greetings

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 6, 2007, 10:54pm

actually i have a couple of new pics:

Scythians:

[image]

Huns:

Magyar:

Pechenegs:

[image]

Qipchaq:

Mongol:

most are from a Romanian book called something like "historical warriors of Romania", it includes pics of virtually every Steppe tribe that ever dwelled on the western Steppe.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 6, 2007, 11:08pm

If I look carafully at the small image of the saka cavalryman, I think his upper leg protection isn't made of completely circular bands (O-rings).I see 4 bands with at one side a flat part (just beside his sword).
Can you describe me how the upper leg armour looks like, how it is constructed? Maybe you can see more detail in your picture.
Thanks

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jul 6, 2007, 11:26pm

Quote:

Great! Those pics are from the book by a Kazak military expert K.S. Ahmetjanov. I have that book.

I can scan those pictures in high resolution.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 7, 2007, 2:10pm

Great pictures!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 7, 2007, 4:33pm

What a relieve to hear you have the book in which to find the small pictures of the Saka warriors!
Because of the peculiar form of leg armour the cav.man is wearing, the pictures are very interesting for me.
If you would be so kind to scan those pictures in high resolution and post them here or mail them to me I would be very gratefull.If you decide to mail them I can give you my mail adress.
Thanks
Greetings

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 10, 2007, 1:52am

[image]

"Picture of Our Valorous Military Repulsing the Russian Cossack Cavalry on the Bank of the Yalu River", painted by Watanabe Nobukazu, March 1904.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 10, 2007, 10:04pm

Quote:

Quote:

Great! Those pics are from the book by a Kazak military expert K.S. Ahmetjanov. I have that book.

I can scan those pictures in high resolution.

Dear BAWIR$AQ
I'll hope you'll find the possibility to scan these small pictures of Saka warriors in high resolution and post them here or send them to me by E-mail.If there are costs involved I'll be glad to pay for them.
Thanks

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 11, 2007, 7:46pm

The links are broken :-/

Pics by Qaliolla Ahmetjanov
Post by bawirsaq on Jul 11, 2007, 10:29pm

Quote:

What a relieve to hear you have the book in which to find the small pictures of the Saka warriors!
Because of the peculiar form of leg armour the cav.man is wearing, the pictures are very interesting for me.
If you would be so kind to scan those pictures in high resolution and post them here or mail them to me I would be very gratefull.If you decide to mail them I can give you my mail adress.
Thanks
Greetings

Cataphract

Images by a Kazak military expert Qaliolla Ahmetjanov

Saka warriors
5-3 centuries BC
[image]

Scythian warriors
5-1 centuries BC
[image]

Sarmatian warriors
6-1 centuries BC
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 11, 2007, 11:17pm

magnificent pictures!

are there more pictures in this book or is it just about Indo-Iranian Steppe warriors? also is the Sarmatian horseman bottom right in Roman service? the armour looks like lorica segmentata, which is not used by cavalrymen...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 13, 2007, 1:28am

It also has Xiongnu, Huns, Tujue, Uyghurs, Qyrghyz, Kimeks, Oghuz, Qypchaqs, Mongols and Qazaqs.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jul 13, 2007, 6:51am

I'll try to post other pictures later.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 13, 2007, 7:50pm

Quote:

It also has Xiongnu, Huns, Tujue, Uyghurs, Qyrghyz, Kimeks, Oghuz, Qypchaqs, Mongols and Qazaqs.

I look forward to see them!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 13, 2007, 8:55pm

I can scan them in my free time, and Bawirsaq Yabghu can do it too

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 16, 2007, 6:32pm

Quote:

Quote:

Images by a Kazak military expert Qaliolla Ahmetjanov

Saka warriors
5-3 centuries BC
[image]

Scythian warriors
5-1 centuries BC
[image]

Sarmatian warriors
6-1 centuries BC
[image]

Dear BAWIR$AQ,
Thanks for scanning the pictures to high resolution.They're great.
I wonder if the book gives any information about the construction
of the armour which the 2 Saka cavalryman are wearing.Perhaps the author tells something more about the Saka wearing the bronze cuirass and very uncommom iron banded skirt.
I'm looking forward to see some other pictures of the book.

Greetings
Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 19, 2007, 11:08pm

Quote:

magnificent pictures!

The Sarmatians must have used a form of banded armour.If I'm not mistaken figures wearing this kind of armour can be seen on Trajan's Column.If the armour was made of leather or iron bands, we cannot know.I suppose both materials were in use.We can see that this armour looked a bit like lorica segmentata.

To compensate for the lack of heavy shock cavalry within their own ranks, the Romans in the beginning (before they had the time to adopt and train their own troops to a high degree of cavalry fighting) certainly enlisted Sarmatian cavalrymen. Archaeological evidence of Sarmatians at least supplementing the Roman troops has been found in Great Britain.This means that the Roman practise of enlisting formal enemies to fill in the lack of special troops within the Roman army even was used in such far away Roman provinces as Britain.This makes sence because the Romans used to station these auxiliaries as far away as possible from their native homeland to avoid desertation.
Greetings

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 19, 2007, 11:46pm

Quote:

To compensate for the lack of heavy shock cavalry within their own ranks, the Romans in the beginning (before they had the time to adopt and train their own troops to a high degree of cavalry fighting) certainly enlisted Sarmatian cavalrymen.

when exactly did this happen? i mean, did the Roman used 'native' cavalry at all? i always had the impression that Romes cavalry force was entirely composed of non-Romans throughout history.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 20, 2007, 12:38am

Confrontation with horse-fighting people (Parthians, Sassanids and later Sarmatians) forced the Roman army, which was an infantry army, to adopt cavalry detachments in their army.
At first they used non-romans (Celts,Germans,Sarmatians).By the late Roman period onwards these detachments evolved from being composed of entirely non-roman to a mix of natives(foreign) and purely Roman cavalrymen.Evidence for this is that the Romans had training-camps for their cavalry where they could learn the riding skills.
Greetings

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 20, 2007, 1:03am

During the Republican period, there were cavalry units recruited from vassal Italian city-states.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 20, 2007, 9:09am

Quote:

During the Republican period, there were cavalry units recruited from vassal Italian city-states.

yes, those were Samnites. at that time they weren't Roman (yet) either...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by naaya on Jul 22, 2007, 9:46pm

pizda tas zuragnuud baina - translation wow nice pics

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by naaya on Jul 22, 2007, 9:55pm

http://origo.mn/photo.php?z=001_500&zy=7&zx=&option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1#pic

http://origo.mn/photo.php?z=001_500&zy=1&zx=&option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1#pic

okey some more pics

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 25, 2007, 6:02pm

I'm curious to see how K.S. Ahmetjanov depicts the Xiongnu , Huns and other steppe people in his book.Living in a small country as Belgium I'm not able to buy the book because it's not available over here.Because the pictures of the Saka warriors were great I hope the other pictures of the book will come on the forum too.It's the only way for me to obtain the great pictures.
Greetings

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 25, 2007, 7:28pm

Quote:

I'm curious to see how K.S. Ahmetjanov depicts the Xiongnu , Huns and other steppe people in his book.Living in a small country as Belgium I'm not able to buy the book because it's not available over here.Because the pictures of the Saka warriors were great I hope the other pictures of the book will come on the forum too.It's the only way for me to obtain the great pictures.
Greetings

Cataphract

same here

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jul 26, 2007, 7:51am

Quote:

1,5 - Saka
2 - Qimaq
3 - Russian "quyaq"
4 - Central Asian
6, 7 - nomadic (Qirghiz and Mongol)
[image]

1,2 - Scythian
3 - Greek
4 - Chukot
5,11 - Kok Turk
6- Chinese
7,10 - Scythian
8,9 - Saka
12,13 - Qipchaq
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 27, 2007, 6:50pm

Thanks for the great scans BAWIR$AQ. They tell a lot about the armour used.
Greetings.

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 27, 2007, 7:07pm

Nice photos Naaya

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 27, 2007, 7:41pm

i don't see any pics...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Jul 28, 2007, 10:27pm

Quote:

Quote:

1,5 - Saka
2 - Qimaq
3 - Russian "quyaq"
4 - Central Asian
6, 7 - nomadic (Qirghiz and Mongol)
[image]

1,2 - Scythian
3 - Greek
4 - Chukot
5,11 - Kok Turk
6- Chinese
7,10 - Scythian
8,9 - Saka
12,13 - Qipchaq
[image]

The Yuezhi warrior (plate 1, number 4) shows clearly how they under pressure of the clash with the Xiongnu (who drove them out of their homelands) and under influence of contacts with the Sakas (who they met in their new lands) created the forerunner of a complete cataphract armour.
Early cataphract armour which the Kushan, who replaced the Sakas, later fully developed.
The warrior is depicted holding the spear under-arm.I doubt if this grip was already in use at that time.A two-handed grip of the spear would have been more realistic.I think we can say that this is an artist's interpretation.
Greetings

Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Jul 30, 2007, 11:35pm

Quote:

i don't see any pics...

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/8315/sawit1io2.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/6341/sawit2lw1.jpg

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 31, 2007, 8:12pm

no i mean the pics posted by naaya.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Aug 7, 2007, 9:09pm

there is a new reply at AE concernign the IYI symbol:

"Actually, archeologists say the symbol IYI was present among scythians and sarmatians in Eurasia.
It's a holy symbol.It's believed to symbolise some kind of uniting power,balanser.It is on rossete from Pliska where it's in the center ,surrounded by symbols of 5 planets,the sun and the moon so it really could be the symbol of Tura(Tangra or whatever name you choose).It could be seen on later early-christian writings,stones and crosses from Bulgaria."

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Aug 7, 2007, 9:19pm

Thank you for the info, my dear Shad

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Aug 14, 2007, 1:08am

Hun in Roman service:

[image]

Parthian cataphracts vs Romans:

[image]

Yuan Horseman:

[image]

Yuan warrior:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Aug 14, 2007, 8:14pm

Nice drawings

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Aug 14, 2007, 9:55pm

Quote:

no i mean the pics posted by naaya.

He posted links to 2 photos of modern Mongolians

He didn't put the correct URL

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Aug 16, 2007, 11:15pm

(Danube) Bulgarian warriors:

[image]

in fact more similar to Byzantine cataphracts than original Steppe cataphracts

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Aug 17, 2007, 7:06pm

Yes, especially the final picture is (the first one is clearly in steppe style). Nice drawings

Golden Horde
Post by bawirsaq on Sept 4, 2007, 6:34pm

Golden Horde / Altin Orda

[image]

Mamay

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Sept 4, 2007, 7:46pm

the pic of Mamay is awesome!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Sept 10, 2007, 10:35pm

Kuban Cossack executes a Parthian Shot in the Age of Rifle:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Sept 12, 2007, 11:39pm

Some more Bulgars.

Avitohol, ancestor ofBulgars(orso many people guess):
[image]

Monument of Kanasubigi Asparukh in Lovech:
[image]

Monument of Kanasubigi Krum in Plovdiv:
[image]

Monument of Kanasubigi Ibrahim I from Elbuga(Tatarstan/Volga Bulgaria):
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Sept 13, 2007, 12:03am

Bulgars
[image]

(^^^Influenced by Kypchack?)
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Sept 13, 2007, 12:15am

Quote:

this is a Tatar from the Golden Horde...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Sept 13, 2007, 12:20am

Your left - Bulgar, right - Golden Horde warrior:
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Sept 13, 2007, 12:21am

@Temüjin, Yeah I thought he had some Kypchack influence.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 13, 2007, 12:53am

Hello balkhani, welcome aboard

Thank you for the pictures, they are great

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Sept 13, 2007, 7:40pm

yes, nice pictures.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by borchono on Sept 14, 2007, 5:22pm

[image]

Guy has chest-mirror! it means he has Tatar or Mongol origin. Who would carry a chest mirror? only if his ancestors gave it to him.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 15, 2007, 1:10am

Indeed, that picture shows a warrior from the Golden Horde

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Sept 24, 2007, 12:14pm

Some modern pictures from Bulgaria
[image]

And some videos
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGLnaK0JUng
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDW7__k_tZg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETKhQj_lReA

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by ahiskali on Sept 24, 2007, 5:57pm

verry nice pictures

thank you

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 24, 2007, 8:00pm

Aha, I watched one of the videoa this morning and I was planning to open a thread about them

What a coincidence

And the reannactions are very nice

This shows that the old Bulghars (the ruling class and the military, not their Thraco-Slavic subjects) were Turkic (even though their dialect was already quiet different from other Turkic peoples), as you can see from their costumes

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Sept 24, 2007, 8:21pm

yes, very nice, even with some female warriors

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Sept 24, 2007, 10:01pm

Quote:

Aha, I watched one of the videoa this morning and I was planning to open a thread about them

What a coincidence

And the reannactions are very nice

Well,they were not exactly turkic, but were 100% nomadic/semi-nomadic (Zahary Ritor I believe, described the Bulgars in Great Bulgaria ,toghether with the Alans as typical semi-nomads "The Alans and Bulgars built cities and some of them live in tents")
The Thraco-slavic people were pushed to the boarders of the state by our rulers - first by Asparukh,who moved them on the northern side of the Danube on the border with the Avars,then by Krum who moved them to the boarder with the Franks,then by Omurtag who chased them even out of the Empire and to the northern black sea coast.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 24, 2007, 11:37pm

Hmm, I shall open a new thread and we shall discuss this there

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Sept 29, 2007, 10:45am

Kushan Warriors

More warriors at this page:
http://www.4to40.com/discoverindia/index.asp?article=discoverindia_kushan

FEMALE GUARD
[image]

KING KANISHKA
[image]

SOLDIER

GUARD

More warriors at this page with some info:
http://www.keele.ac.uk/socs/ks45/PageHis....itary/notes.htm

War Elephant with Kushan Crew
[image]

Iranian Swordsmen
[image]

Noble Warriors of the Kushan Period
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Sept 29, 2007, 10:58am

Saka Warriors

The first 2 from 5-4 Century Bc. and the last from 1 Century Bc.
[image]

5 Century Bc

[image]

3 Persian warriors 5 Century Bc( the one from th right is a saka warrior).
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Sept 29, 2007, 6:21pm

mmmh, many of those are not Steppe warriors at all but Indians or Persians... :-/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Oct 5, 2007, 8:55pm

Dunno wheter he's Turkic or Mongol, but i like the picture
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Oct 5, 2007, 11:24pm

Thank you

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Oct 7, 2007, 5:26am

Quote:

Dunno wheter he's Turkic or Mongol, but i like the picture
[image]

It's called "Tatar"

by Timur Karimov from Dushanbe, Tajkistan (Ozbek maybe?)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Oct 7, 2007, 11:26pm

some new contemporary prints from Napoleonic Wars:

Cossack with Crimean Tatar:
[image]

"Khirgiz" (Kazak)
[image]

there were more pictures of Cossacks, but i think i've posted enough Cossacks by now. in fact, i have so many pictures, i could make a big thread just with Cossacks

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Oct 8, 2007, 12:42am

Interesting, thanks

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Oct 9, 2007, 4:05am

Thanks for "Kirgis" (Kazak)! He's awesome! ))

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Oct 9, 2007, 7:40pm

i'm glad you like it

BTW i have some questions. first, do you know by chance what the "S" horsebranding means? also, from what i know Kazakhstan was only conquered later in the 19th century, why do you think so many Kazaks volunteered to aid Russia? was it an alliance, or where they just mercenaries looking for money and loot?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Oct 9, 2007, 7:56pm

As far as I know, they were already under Russian protectorate in the late 18th century. BAWIR$AQ Yabghu would answer your question better than me

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on Oct 10, 2007, 7:58am

Abulkhair Khan asked the Russian protectorate as early as in 1731. In 1801 a part of the small Kazakh horde, known as Bukei Horde was allowed to settle in the Astrakhan region of the Russian empire.

A lot of Nomadic horsemen especially Bashkirs, Tatars, Kazakhs (mostly Bukei horde Kazakhs) were employed as frontier guardsmen in "irregular cavalry" units starting from the end of the 18th beginning of the 19th century. Later they were succesfully employed against French during Napoleonic wars.

Here is the detailed article in English about the history of Bashkir irregular cavalry in the Russian Imperial Army.

http://www.jstor.org/view/00376779/di000....userID=80a4d581

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Oct 10, 2007, 9:24pm

i can't access jstor, i think my computer has to be part of a university network or something.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Oct 11, 2007, 9:05pm

[image]

shanyui Mode (The State of Huns, III century B.C.)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Oct 11, 2007, 9:09pm

[image]

Emperor Attila (Huns Empire, V century A.D.)

[image]

Khanasubigi Organa (The Great Bulgaria, VI-VII century A.D.)

[image]

Kanasubigi Kubrat (The Great Bulgaria, VII century A.D.)

[image]

King Almush (Volga Bulgaria, X century А.D.)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Oct 11, 2007, 10:36pm

I don't think those Bulghar rulers were that hairy, high nosed and colored eyed-haired

But anyway, nice pictures, mersi

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Oct 11, 2007, 11:15pm

Well the Bulgars (skeletons of Bulgars I mean) from the graves found in ex- Great Bulgaria, ex- Volga Bulgaria and Balkan Bulgaria and the surrounding areas are Europoid so they MIGHT have looked something like this, unless they shaved off their hair and beard.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Oct 14, 2007, 1:26am

M.Avilov "The Duel between Russian hero Peresvet and tatar-mongol warrior Chelubei"
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Oct 15, 2007, 9:28pm

Yes, that is a famous painting indeed

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Oct 18, 2007, 12:49am

Ganbat made some new pictures:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Oct 18, 2007, 3:55pm

Nice indeed

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Oct 23, 2007, 11:16pm

Quote:

Great! Those pics are from the book by a Kazak military expert K.S. Ahmetjanov. I have that book.

I can scan those pictures in high resolution.

as a reminder...

i'd really like to see teh otehr Turkic Nomads of that book

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by uyghur on Oct 29, 2007, 4:13pm

good..

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Nov 8, 2007, 12:20am

Quote:

Some images from the book "Armies of the Turkic peoples" by Polish artist Andrzej Michalek

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Nov 10, 2007, 7:53pm

Very nice, thanks

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Nov 10, 2007, 8:39pm

Does anyone can post plates from the next 2 book?

Mongol Warlords by David Nicolle

Concord The Mongols by Tim Newark & Liu Yong Hua
http://www.concord-publications.com/6006/6006.htm

Some of the plates from the last book have allready been posted on this thread.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 10, 2007, 10:13pm

i have posted all the plates i found on the web, from both books. however i own both books and i thougth about getting a digital cam, so i can "scan" those plates myself. the only downside of this is the quality of the scans might not be very good.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Nov 11, 2007, 12:49pm

Quote:

i have posted all the plates i found on the web, from both books. however i own both books and i thougth about getting a digital cam, so i can "scan" those plates myself. the only downside of this is the quality of the scans might not be very good.

Don’t worry about the quality, bad quality plates will always be better that no plates at all, so please scan them!

I have found, last night after posting the request, someone which has The Mongol Warlords book, and it is possibly to get the plates from this book, but at this moment it is only possible, not sure.

Could you please start with the plates from the Concord Mongols first, because if I get the plates from them Mongol Warlords I will post them.

Thank You!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Nov 15, 2007, 6:27pm

Quote:

do you know by chance what the "S" horsebranding means?

It's definitely a "tañba" (tamga), a symbol of a tribe/clan, whose livestock are marked by this symbol. The tañba also appears on various belongings, as well as on the graves of deceased members of the tribe.

Right now, I cannot tell which clan does it long to because I don't have the charts of Qazaq tañbas right now. I'm in the process of recovering some of my files I lost on my external hard drive.

Quote:

from what i know Kazakhstan was only conquered later in the 19th century, why do you think so many Kazaks volunteered to aid Russia? was it an alliance, or where they just mercenaries looking for money and loot?

There was a significant number of Qazaq aristocracy who were rather collaborative with the colonizers, and they joined Bashqort units during the Russian "Patriotic" war.

In early 19th century there were a series of Russian fort lines in the northern part of Qazaqstan, stretching from Ural to Irtysh rivers. Although the real political control over Qazaqs did not start until 1822, Qazaqs living next to these forts were already dependent on the Russians because of the trade and other factors.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 15, 2007, 10:09pm

i see, very interesting. so Kazaks were part of other units, like Bashkirs. i always wondered that because i never read of Kazak units but many pictures from germany etc suggest a strong Kazak presence. at least they were a favourite topic for illustrators there...

BTW, who is this Kenesari Khan of your signature?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Nov 16, 2007, 1:51am

Quote:

i see, very interesting. so Kazaks were part of other units, like Bashkirs. i always wondered that because i never read of Kazak units but many pictures from germany etc suggest a strong Kazak presence. at least they were a favourite topic for illustrators there...

I can email you that article fro JSTOR about Bashkir military service.

Quote:

who is this Kenesari Khan of your signature?

Kenesarı Khan (1802 - 1847) was the last elected khan (ruler) of Kazak khanate and the leader of the great Kazak national-liberation movement against the Russian colonization of Kazakstan in 1837-47. His uprising for the Kazak independence stretched across all of the Kazakstan, he successfully fought the technically superior Russian forces and captured Russian military fortresses.

The French writer Jules Verne used Kenesarı as a prototype for the character of Feofor Khan in his novel "Michael Strogoff".

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Nov 17, 2007, 12:24am

Does anyone knows from which books the next 2 plates come?
They both show persian and saka warriors.

[image]

Can anyone please post any other plates that have not been allready posted in this thread with messagae or saka warriors?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 17, 2007, 12:39am

i only know the illustrator of the first, Mikhail Gorelik, but i also would like to know from which books they are, must be russian books.

btw i have many pictures like the second pic, but i guess you have them too already...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Nov 17, 2007, 12:54pm

Quote:

i only know the illustrator of the first, Mikhail Gorelik, but i also would like to know from which books they are, must be russian books.

btw i have many pictures like the second pic, but i guess you have them too already...

I only have the plates from this page and the next ones
http://gorod.crimea.edu/librari/greki/str_01.html
but not other black and white plate like the one above.

The black and white plate shows some of the warriors from the color pages and others.
Do you know from which book they are?

Do you have other black and white plates of this type?

Could you show them to me?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 17, 2007, 8:21pm

yeah, those are the pictures i meant. no idea from which book they are...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Nov 19, 2007, 11:42pm

Does anyone know how i can contact the user cataphract from this forum. It sems that he didn't logon from end of august.

The user cataphract originaly posted the next plate on this forum

on the http://steppes.proboards23.com/index.cgi....read=1187045882

Does anyone knows the cataphract email?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Nov 19, 2007, 11:46pm

Quote:

The user cataphract originaly posted the next plate on this forum

This artwork is by Mikhail Gorelik

It's an illustration from the book "Macedonian gambit" by Korolev K.

Other illustrations are here: http://militera.lib.ru/h/korolev_k/ill.html

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Nov 20, 2007, 12:48am

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Nov 20, 2007, 1:20am

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Nov 20, 2007, 1:03pm

Great pictures

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Nov 20, 2007, 7:51pm

Some more. Seems like they are poping out everywhere.
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Nov 21, 2007, 12:20am

Quote:

Quote:

The user cataphract originaly posted the next plate on this forum

This artwork is by Mikhail Gorelik

It's an illustration from the book "Macedonian gambit" by Korolev K.

Other illustrations are here: http://militera.lib.ru/h/korolev_k/ill.html

Thank You !

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Nov 22, 2007, 3:40pm

Interesting photos. It seems Steppe warfare and Steppe lifestyle is quiet popular in Bulgaria, even more than in Turkey because we never have such nice recreations here :-/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Nov 22, 2007, 11:14pm

http://swechkin.narod.ru/pers.htm

Here you can find the drawing. If you can translate the text belonging to the numbers I would be glad to hear.
If you're interested in cataphracts like I am stay in contact and ask questions if you've got them.
Greetings
Cataphract

Quote:

Does anyone know how i can contact the user cataphract from this forum. It sems that he didn't logon from end of august.

The user cataphract originaly posted the next plate on this forum

on the http://steppes.proboards23.com/index.cgi....read=1187045882

Does anyone knows the cataphract email?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Nov 23, 2007, 10:50pm

Red Cossacks on the Eatsern Front:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Nov 24, 2007, 6:19pm

Wow, I never saw depictions of Cossack action in WWII in paintings before

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Nov 25, 2007, 4:39pm

Quote:

http://swechkin.narod.ru/pers.htm

Here you can find the drawing. If you can translate the text belonging to the numbers I would be glad to hear.
If you're interested in cataphracts like I am stay in contact and ask questions if you've got them.
Greetings
Cataphract

Quote:

Does anyone know how i can contact the user cataphract from this forum. It sems that he didn't logon from end of august.

The user cataphract originaly posted the next plate on this forum

on the http://steppes.proboards23.com/index.cgi....read=1187045882

Does anyone knows the cataphract email?

Using babelfish translator the text is :

Persian army to 3 V B.C..
The main disadvantage in the Persian army of this epoch consists in its irregularity. It was completed according to the territorial principle, in each satrapii (territorial unit) was located critical for the "rekrutskiy collection", kotryy was conducted by necessity. I.e., in 90% army was martial militia that was implied the insufficient state of training of soldiers, the weak organization of interaction of subdivisions while under power and in the battle these deficiencies were aggravated by lingual barrier - in the state not there was united language and often subordinates did not understand the speech of their commander. From the militia was formed in essence light infantry, drotometateley, archers or the lekguyu cavalry.
Rest 10% - this nucleus troops. It included tsarist bodyguards, garrisons of satrapiy and Greek mercenaries, who were in the honor in Persians and they were paid sufficiently generously. Greeks brought into Persiyu construction by the phalanx, which, however, not was acknowledged because of the dissociation of peoples in the Persian troops.
To ehlite of army composed the "immortal" bodyguards of tsar by the number of force into 10000 people. "immortal" they were called because loss in this force instantly would be completed and the killed soldiers thus seemingly revived in their receivers. "unestimated" were armed by the small bows, useless against the armors, by short swords and by short spears, from the armors they bore metallic breastplates and used leather panels. This was not allowed, in spite of "elitnost'" to war against the cavalry and kopeyshchikov.
Persian cavalry was divided into the light (it consisted of nomads from the east - Scythians, Sarmatians, baktriytsev) and the heavy, strictly the Persian and the the midiyskuyu. The heavy armored cavalry consisted of aristocrats, it counted the order of 10000 horsemen.
In the offensive the cavalry supported combat chariots - serponosnye kvadrigi, charged dvumya-chetyr'mya with horses and had sickles on the rims of wheels. Chariots brought essential loss to enemy.
Another special feature of the army of Persians was the presence of elephants from Indian satrapiy.
The army followed enormous convoy - wife and children of military leaders, eunuchs, servants, craftsmen, merchants, domestic cattle ("living foodstuffs"). This convoy considerably decreased the speed of forces while under power. It was most present burden, which deprived troops of freedom of maneuvering.
Poor learning ability and state of training, raznoplemennost' and raznoyazykost', a constant caution of commanders to the rear and the convoy - all this hampered the passage of drive signal, in consequence of which Persian army won battles exclusively because of the numerical superiority.

On rof ekonstruktsii Of m.V.Gorelika (ris.y), made on the archaelogical findings, to the monuments of depictive skill and to the descriptions of Xenophon, Arriana and Curtius Rufus, you can see the armament of soldiers Persii:
1. the Persian heavily armed rider
2. the Persian rider- bodyguard
3. the Persian lightly armed rider- archer
4, The likiyskiy heavily armed rider
5. the phrygian heavily armed soldier
6, The sogdiyskiy soldier
7. Sakskiy heavily armed rider.

[image]

Ris.y. Soldiers of akhemenidskogo Iran and Central Asia.

Bashqort and Qazaq VS. Wuerttemberg cavalry
Post by bawirsaq on Dec 11, 2007, 10:16am

Quote:

and especially for Bawirsaq:

Kazak troops vs Württemberg cavalry in the 1812 campaign. so it seems the soldiers of our two nations have met in battle already...

Quote:

the picture is called "Württembergische Kavalleristen im Kampf mit Baschkiren" (= Württemberg cavalrymen in combat with Bashkirs) by the painter Johann Baptist Seele, paintet in 1813/14.

It seems that it's the portrait of both Bashqort and Qazaq:

[image]

Compare it with the other picture:

http://www.turan.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3529

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 11, 2007, 10:45pm

yes you're right.

btw, do you remember, you wanted to scan the pictures of the Turkic nomads from that Kazak book.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by bawirsaq on Dec 12, 2007, 12:39am

Yes, I do. Sorry for the delay.. I will do it over the holidays.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Dec 12, 2007, 12:58am

thanks that would be nice

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Dec 12, 2007, 1:26am

Here's one from my school

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Dec 12, 2007, 4:03pm

What is your school?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Dec 13, 2007, 2:40am

Normal, Bulgarian school wich apparently has a strong respect for our history - we have great history classrooms and we have such paintings on each floor - the one on the picture above, one of the tale of Kubrat and his sons,the christianisation,balkan and world wars 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Dec 13, 2007, 11:47pm

Sounds cool.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 19, 2008, 1:04am

while i was at it, i also took pics of the plates from the book asian armies of the 19th century, volume 1 central asia & himalayan kingdoms:

Bokhara:

[image]

East Turkestan:

[image]

Khiva:

Khokand:

Kazakhs:

Kirghiz:

Turcomans:

[image]

from volume 2: china

some Manchu Bannermen (Fig. 1-6):

[image]

Khalkha Mongols & Oirat:

[image]

Oirats & Chahar Mongol (Fig. 131):

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 21, 2008, 2:38am

Very nice, thanks a lot

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by azadan on Feb 6, 2008, 1:04am

I can't view any of these pics

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Feb 6, 2008, 3:16am

Hello Azadan, welcome aboard

Why can not view any of the pictures? I can view all of them

Dear members, here is a drawing of a random Old Turkic warrior:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by pantekin on Feb 26, 2008, 6:53am

here are some pictures of ancient steppe warriors
chingizkhan
[image]

Emir Temur (from UZBEK movie Buyuk Emir Temur)
[image]

iparhan

kazan tatars
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Feb 26, 2008, 9:33pm

Nice pictures, thanks a lot

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by balkhani on Mar 1, 2008, 11:18pm

Bulgarians arriving at the Danube
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by azadan on Mar 2, 2008, 1:45am

still can not view any of them.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Mar 10, 2008, 12:34am

XianBei (or late XiongNu):

[image]

Manchus:

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by mwe on Apr 30, 2008, 2:21am

Any more images of the Crimean/Kazan Tatars?

And a special favor in the book on the battle of the Kalka River there iis an image of Kipchaq warriors - two men and a lady does anyone have it scanned?

Qing
[image]

Ottomans

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by mwe on Apr 30, 2008, 2:39am

Are these pictures depicting any states in particular, does anyone know?

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 30, 2008, 7:39pm

I got the picture you asked for from the e-book version of that book but it's not of best quality

Those infantrymen are Ottoman janissaries. The cavalrymen under that are Ottoman tımarlı sipâhis. The warriors below are random drawings of Old Turkic warriors. The last one is a heavy cavalryman of the Blue Turks (Gök Türks, Tūjué [T'u-chüeh] 突厥).

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by mwe on May 1, 2008, 1:33am

Thanks for the image (it is of great quality - don't worry about that) and info on the Turkic pictures.

Anyone have more pictures from the Crimean/Kazan Khanate?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on May 2, 2008, 8:37pm

why do you post Ottomans in this thread? :-/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on May 31, 2008, 11:07pm

Source: http://history.novosibdom.ru/

Source for english user:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=....TF8&sl=ru&tl=en

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jun 3, 2008, 6:02pm

thats a great find, thanks for sharing!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jun 4, 2008, 1:36am

That is awesome indeed, thanks a lot

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by nikebg on Jun 6, 2008, 11:48am

Dec 13, 2007, 2:40am, balkhani wrote:

Normal, Bulgarian school wich apparently has a strong respect for our history - we have great history classrooms and we have such paintings on each floor - the one on the picture above, one of the tale of Kubrat and his sons,the christianisation,balkan and world wars 8-)

Yes, my first school also had such pictures all over the place.

Anyway, here are a heavy- and light-armed Mongol warriors:
[image]

And Ivailo's rebellion against the Tatars.
Both are from the book "The great battles and fights of the Bulgarians in the Middle Ages".

Btw, this horseman from the same book is indeed a Byzantine kataphract from the second half of the X century, as the text next to the picture says...

Edit: I almost forgot to add the Kuman warrior on the left here.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jun 6, 2008, 2:02pm

Greetings nikebg, welcome aboard

Plus, thank you for the share, looks like a nice book, I'm downloading all the pages now

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jun 6, 2008, 5:07pm

yeah, great pictures, thanks.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jun 6, 2008, 5:33pm

btw could you please explain the flag seen on page 59? it looks like the three Lions of Swabia.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by nikebg on Jun 6, 2008, 7:24pm

As far as I see they've used a reversed version of the tsar's coat of arms, more specifically the version from the Armorial by Conrad Grünenberg. For more info on the medieval Bulgarian heraldry, check this site. Btw, it is also close to the English medieval arms, which are also similar.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jun 6, 2008, 11:09pm

mmmh, this is very intersting, on most it says "Emperor of Bulgarians". three black lions on yellow are also the coat of arms of Swabia. they are still seen in a more modern version on the recent coat of arms of the federal country of Baden-Württemberg:

[image]

a similar flag is also seen on a well-known picture showign an oxen-drawn Mongol ger. here's the reconstruction:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Jul 9, 2008, 1:38pm

The MONGOL EMPIRE

The Kidan headquarters XIth c.
[image]

Battle between Mongols and eastern Tatars (1198). 'A' repreents Temujin, future Genghiz khan.
[image]

[COLOR=blue][COLOR=black]

Mongol army leaves Karakorum. 13th c.
[image]

Archers attacking mid 13th-early 14th c.
[image]

Turco-Mongol heavy cavalry mid 13th - mid 14th c.
[image]

Kypchak khans and their retainers mid 13th-early 14th c.
[image]

Turco-Mongols in Caucasus 14th c.
[image]

Transoxnian khan. Age of Tamerlane.
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 9, 2008, 2:00pm

Very nice drawings

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 9, 2008, 7:43pm

those are totally awesome!

do you also know from which book they are?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Jul 10, 2008, 6:11pm

Jul 9, 2008, 7:43pm, temujin wrote:

those are totally awesome!

do you also know from which book they are?

Tatar-Mongol Armies of the X-XII Centuries
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 10, 2008, 11:13pm

Gorelik is Number 1 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by aba on Jul 13, 2008, 12:09pm

Dear all,

thank you for this thread which I found interesting and helpful.

Me, being a flats collector plan to do some 1812 to 1814 troops of steppe horseman which took part in these wars against Napoleon.

From contemporary pictures it is doubtful to make out clear differences to various tribes, namely between bashkirs and khirgiz. Most named groups 1812 - 1814 are

Bashkirs
Khirgiz
Kalmouks

there are some contemporary (german) artists making portraits or drawings of these warriors not shown in this thread yet :

kalmouks (?)

http://www.flats-zinnfiguren.com/basch2.jpg
http://www.flats-zinnfiguren.com/schadow2.jpg

bashkirs

http://www.flats-zinnfiguren.com/basch5.jpg
http://www.flats-zinnfiguren.com/basch6.jpg

?

http://www.flats-zinnfiguren.com/basch1.jpg

Are there any more (written) informations available as for uniforms (??) of officers or tribal leaders, standards (if any) or trumpeters (if any).

Modern english publications (for example "Cossack Hurrah" ) give a rough description, but no details at all.

Thanks in advance

Alexander

http://www.flats-zinnfiguren.com

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 13, 2008, 2:35pm

hello, thanks for sharing your pictures. i have to congratulate you for your bold undertaking, being interested in both Napoleonics and Steppe history. anyways, i don't know any good references about the dress of those three groupings, the only other good book i know is "Armies of the Nineteenth Century. The Armies of Asia: CENTRAL ASIA AND THE HIMALAYAN KINGDOMS" from Wargames Foundry. it has informations about Kazakhs (Khirgiz) and Khirgiz proper, but the book is rather expensive and it has no further info on Bashkirs nor Kalmyks.
in the time period 1812-1814, Kalmyks were usually also already uniformed like Cossacks, they should therefore be easily identifiable. the issue of Bashkirs & "Kirghiz" (Kazakhs) is more difficult, because they tend to have very similar dress and because Kazakhs were always attached to Bashkir formations. Kazakhs are usually easy to identify due to their distinct headgear, but i have also seen many even stranger appearances in the Elberfelder Bilderhandschrift, similar to your first picture with the "Ku-Klux-Klan" horsemen.

this is a valuable source for the period 1813-1814 as it has numerous pictures of the allied armies including a lot of irregular horsemen, so you should probably get it if you don't have it already.

i have also next to zero information about the so called Mesheriak units, i even don't know what mesheriaks even are, but i have seen them mentioned with the Russian reserve Army in Germany/Poland so maybe its possible they were drawn too, so the really odd figures could be them.

from your pictures i can easily identifiy two Kazakhs (called Khirgiz by Russians), the rest are probably Bashkirs. in all events, bashkirs have formed the majority of irregular cavalry for Russia so if everythign else fails, it is probably best to refer to them as Bashkirs.

http://www.flats-zinnfiguren.com/basch2.jpg

first mounted figure from right, maybe also his neighbour with full beard (untypical).

http://www.flats-zinnfiguren.com/schadow2.jpg

this could be a Kazakh, based on his fancy trouser.

http://www.flats-zinnfiguren.com/basch6.jpg

3rd from left is Kazakh. 4th and 5th from left as well as the first from right are definately Bashkirs, the others are more difficult.

http://www.flats-zinnfiguren.com/basch1.jpg

those are actually Cossacks, they wear bad weather coats and have the typical full-beard and headgear of Cossacks. the figure in front in red is more difficult. pro-Cossack: full beard, weapons (no bow). contra-cossack: apparently shaven head, non-regulation headgear. this is either a Cossack officer in fancy dress or.... :-/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jul 13, 2008, 2:49pm

Greetings Aba, welcome aboard, and thanx for the share

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by aba on Jul 13, 2008, 8:25pm

Dear Temüjin,

thank you for your response. I own the Elberfeld but irritating are different and somtimes probably wrong names of depicted units.

For instance these

http://www.napoleon-online.de/Sauerweid_Russen1807_Tafel8.jpg

are refered to being "kalmouks"

but are Kirghize (Kazakh) then.

According to battle orders of 1812 there have been Bashkir and separate Kirghiz units. But when "mixed" units have been fielded it makes easier for me to take some of both.

I will check "Armies of the Nineteenth Century. The Armies of Asia: CENTRAL ASIA AND THE HIMALAYAN KINGDOMS" as there are few to no sources to my knowledge.

Thank you again

Alexander

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jul 14, 2008, 7:44pm

Jul 13, 2008, 8:25pm, aba wrote:

Dear Temüjin,

thank you for your response. I own the Elberfeld but irritating are different and somtimes probably wrong names of depicted units.

yes i agree. in the edition that i have, basically every irregular horseman is called Bashkir, one that I would pretty much classify as Khirgiz proper (called Black Khirgiz by the Russians) is labeled as Buryat Mongol...

Quote:

According to battle orders of 1812 there have been Bashkir and separate Kirghiz units. But when "mixed" units have been fielded it makes easier for me to take some of both.

separate kazakh units, thats new to me, i would have to check some OOBs, i only know of separate Crimean tatar Units and the Kalmyks.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cl30 on Jul 16, 2008, 11:36am

very nice, I am wondering if anyone can post more TIMUR's pictures?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by horseman on Jul 29, 2008, 2:11am

did the gorelik wrote book about huns???

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Aug 5, 2008, 7:51am

I will post scythians, Saka, and Indo Saka\

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Aug 5, 2008, 7:52am

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Aug 5, 2008, 7:54am

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Aug 5, 2008, 7:55am

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Aug 5, 2008, 7:56am

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Aug 5, 2008, 7:57am

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Aug 5, 2008, 7:58am

Does any one has more scythians ?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Aug 5, 2008, 11:45am

Wow, that's awesome

Incredible! Thank you for the share!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by altar on Aug 5, 2008, 11:54am

Thanks for your share Gie. Nice job buddy

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Aug 7, 2008, 10:32pm

Gie, do you have all plates from the book the Achaemenid Army by duncan head?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Aug 16, 2008, 12:07pm

Yes i have them.
Actually the bellow plates, posted in my posts with scythians are from that book.

1. Haomavarga SAKA
2. From left to right
Sogdian or Chorasmian Infantrymen , Baktrian Infantrymen, Arachosian cavalarymen
3. Saka warriors

[image]

I think we should open a thread just like this one
Pictures of Enemies of the Steppe Warriors were to put

pictures of warrior that fought the steppe warriors such as Persians.
I will open the thread and post the Persian army plates.
I am also doing a collections about Persians as i have made with the Scythain.
I some one can make contributions especial from non English books i will be happy!

Any other plates do any of you misses? I i have them i will post them.

Thank You!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Aug 19, 2008, 12:02am

Aug 16, 2008, 12:07pm, gie wrote:

pictures of warrior that fought the steppe warriors such as Persians.
I will open the thread and post the Persian army plates.
I am also doing a collections about Persians as i have made with the Scythain.
I some one can make contributions especial from non English books i will be happy!

Any other plates do any of you misses? I i have them i will post them.

Thank You!

yeah please go on and open a thread. actually i am also missing the plates of another Montvert book, the one on the Eastern Roman Army, called Army of Justinian and reconquest of the west or something.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by grmc12tarkhan on Aug 20, 2008, 11:11am

Wow, what A great forum.
I m crazy about Steppe warriors and I like to draw lol. I`m a Mongolian young artist, Studying for Fine Arts, I like our great history. I`d like to post some of my drawing. Hope U guys like it and any crits, comments R welcome.
So guys please help and support me he he

Mongol heavy cavalry XIII-XIV
[image]

Tarkhan Baatar /great warrior/
[image]

Yuan dynasty Queen and Guards
[image]

Here you guys can see more pics ... http://conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89934&highlight=beauty

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by altar on Aug 20, 2008, 11:49am

All of them are excellent... Thanks Tarkhan and welcome to SHF.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Aug 20, 2008, 1:48pm

Greetings grmc12tarkhan, welcome aboard

Your drawings are just awesome! Well done, good job 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Aug 20, 2008, 11:04pm

yeah, very nice drawings!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by grmc12tarkhan on Aug 21, 2008, 4:40am

he he thanks guys I`ll make better warriors soon...

...:)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Aug 26, 2008, 8:24am

Montvert Achemenid army

[image]

They are 5 more 1 black and white and 4 in colors.
I will post i sonne as i can!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Aug 26, 2008, 12:56pm

Nice pictures

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by altar on Aug 26, 2008, 8:12pm

Awesome pictures again from Gie

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Aug 26, 2008, 8:27pm

yeah i think this is the best book about the Achaemenid Army available.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by ivan55599 on Sept 6, 2008, 4:51pm

l would want to see vandals, goths,slavs and teutons, although they aren steppe tribes, but you put some european tribe pictures. and it seems that you have sources, where these can be found

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 7, 2008, 8:33pm

Greetings Ivan55599, welcome aboard

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 7, 2008, 9:39pm

Welcome/Tervetuloa Ivan.

BTW: What your avatar means?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by tengrikut on Sept 8, 2008, 12:04am

it is simple: a shadow communist with snow

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by ivan55599 on Sept 8, 2008, 6:42am

thanx. l took that picture from some russia forum, there are also other backgrounds; green columns and santa claus-theme.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Sept 14, 2008, 7:00pm

Great to see the plates depicted in Montvert book 'Achaemenid army'. I have been searching for these plates a very long time. Hope gie will find the time to post the other plates. Especially the plate depicting a Persian heavy cavalryman equiped with a persian armoured saddle will be a great addition to my collection.
Greetings
Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Sept 14, 2008, 11:58pm

Sept 14, 2008, 7:00pm, cataphract wrote:

Great to see the plates depicted in Montvert book 'Achaemenid army'. I have been searching for these plates a very long time. Hope gie will find the time to post the other plates. Especially the plate depicting a Persian heavy cavalryman equiped with a persian armoured saddle will be a great addition to my collection.
Greetings
Cataphract

I am out of town in my summer holidays and I dont`t have access to my computer! I am sorry i can not post them faster!
I will be home on the last weekend from this month.

I will try to look if i have a copy in my email, In this case i will post them before this date!

Someone wants other plates?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 15, 2008, 3:20pm

Keep posting when you have free time

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by cataphract on Sept 15, 2008, 7:07pm

Sept 14, 2008, 11:58pm, gie wrote:

Sept 14, 2008, 7:00pm, cataphract wrote:

Thanks Gie.
Plates of cataphract warriors (no Ospreys, I know there are several great Russian books which aren't available in Europe) would be great. Maybe you have some of these books.
Many thanks
Greetings
Cataphract

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Sept 17, 2008, 11:28am

Sept 14, 2008, 7:00pm, cataphract wrote:

I will show you the plate when i will be in my town.
The armour is the same as the one bellow.

[image]

Enjoy!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Sept 26, 2008, 6:55pm

I have posted Persian Cataphract representation where

http://steppes.proboards23.com/index.cgi....24&page=1#16870

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by gie on Sept 26, 2008, 7:05pm

Aug 26, 2008, 8:24am, gie wrote:

Montvert Achemenid army

[image]

They are 5 more 1 black and white and 4 in colors.
I will post i sonne as i can!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Sept 28, 2008, 6:38pm

excellent, thanks!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 29, 2008, 1:42am

Thanx again, dear gie 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by barskhan on Oct 26, 2008, 6:49am

thanks for posting these awesome pictures! Keep em coming please!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Oct 26, 2008, 2:46pm

Greetings Barskhan, welcome aboard

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by barskhan on Oct 26, 2008, 8:35pm

Thank you. I am glad to be here.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by acunga on Oct 27, 2008, 2:43am

I only wanted to mention to temujin who posted pictures of Bulgarian warriors that I do not know who is his source but I am sure that if he google Bulgarian warriors will find more truthful info.I do not say that all the pictures about the bolgars are not true but some of them.The sighn of Dulo is not 100% sure it is it, and as a matter of fact if you ask me we must wait for the old bulgarian historians to die before we know the truth about ourselves , bulgarians.Our history was too much modified during the Soviet time

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Oct 27, 2008, 9:28pm

Hi Acunga, welcome aboard

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by borchono on Nov 2, 2008, 11:46am

Mongols call Bulgars as "Bolgar" it sounds like "Bool gar"="Servent army". I used to think so.
After watching this movie :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvNmaPuh3A0
(In the beginning of movie, it says "Balgari" or "Bulgari" means "Risen" or "Rebel" in ancient Turkic lang...)
I thought if we call Bulgars as "Bulgar" not "Bolgar" then word "Bulgar" means "Separated bone" this is the same meaning as "Risen"="Separated".

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Nov 3, 2008, 8:37pm

Yes, the word Bulgha- exists both in Turkic and Mongolian with the meaning "to become chaotic, rebel".

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by borchono on Nov 4, 2008, 7:50am

We have word "Bulghai"="Bulhai" meaning (wrong action) "a lie","crime"...etc ::)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Nov 5, 2008, 5:17pm

The same in Old Turkic

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by steveimmortal on Jan 3, 2009, 11:46pm

Hello,
Where is the image "Scythian & Babylonian king meet after the destruction of the Assyrian capital Niniveh" taken from? do you have a title for the book or an ISBN?

Thanks for any help.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 4, 2009, 12:54am

this book: http://www.concord-publications.com/6005/6005.htm

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by steveimmortal on Jan 4, 2009, 12:58am

Thank you!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by keaganjoelbrewer on Jan 4, 2009, 1:03am

Heading to some museums would be a good idea too, depending of course on where you live.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by revanor on Jan 7, 2009, 8:57pm

Let me put in some pics... about Hungarians

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on Jan 7, 2009, 11:13pm

I wish that there were a stricter regard for historical accuracy amongst Hungarian re-enactors. Take for example the caftan. There is absolutely no evidence of the double lapel opening. That fashion is a Turk design from much further east. The Hungarians and other groups in the vicinity north of the Black Sea had much influence from Sassanian designs. Caftans which are more historically accurate would be fur-lined and either have a frogged closure or have a double-breasted front with closure to the left.

Frogged closure like these Bulgars:
[image]

Or double-breasted front like this Alanian 9th century caftan from the Moshchevaya Balka find in the Caucaus:

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on Jan 7, 2009, 11:39pm

Here's another Alani caftan from the same burial in the Caucasus:

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/06/waa/ho_1996.78.1.htm

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 8, 2009, 5:05am

Nice pictures

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 8, 2009, 9:03pm

indeed.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 26, 2009, 2:45am

[image]

Hello ,Finally i would like to upload some new pictures of Proto- Bulgarian warriors.

I think we have great history and people must see this.
.Bulgarians took part in Atila confederation in 5.A.D.
It was the Onogurs and Kutrigurs.

Thank you!

Hope you like my pictures.

.ILIYAN.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 26, 2009, 2:47am

Picture N.2

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 26, 2009, 2:48am

And picture N.3

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jan 26, 2009, 8:39pm

well they are quite nice.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 27, 2009, 2:49am

Ok,You will like this.

Some images of Bulgarian kings and some turkish commanders.

We have also Organisation called BAGA-TUR which are people who train everyone who wants to feel like our ancestors,like:
Using a bow,riding a horse,wearing ancient equipment,armor and weapons,etc.

The website is : www.baga-tur.com

They say Bulgarians and turkish we were from one etnic group in the past,but later on the bulgarians adopted christianity.
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 27, 2009, 2:49am

Nice drawings, thank you sharing them with you

However, I can not agree with your statement that the Bulghars were descendents of the Huns, and that they share the same origin with the Magyars. First of all, the Bulghars were formed as a union of several Oghur tribes who were, for some time, ruled by the Huns, but they were different from them. However, after the fall of the Hunnic Empire, most of the remaining Huns fled eastwards and joined the Oghurs, some of whom later became the Bulghars. So actually this means that the ancestors of Bulghars joined the Hunnic armies of 5th century and that they were "Hunnic" in a political sense. However, ethnicially, they were different. Second; the Magyars have nothing to do with the Huns, but they were deeply influenced from Onoghurs.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 27, 2009, 2:51am

Oh, didn't see your last post, sorry

Yes, the Oghurs and thus the Bulghars (not to be confused with the later Bulgarians - the reason why I type these names in different ways) were indeed a Turkic people, but they spoke a different dialect of Old Turkic (also known as the R-Dialect).

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 27, 2009, 2:51am

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 27, 2009, 2:56am

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 27, 2009, 3:01am

And...of course ATILA - The greatest leader of the Huns,which i admire,he almost defeated Roman army,but unfortunatelly he was eventually won and killed by trickery and lies,you know the story...of the misterious woman who poisoned him...

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 27, 2009, 3:05am

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 27, 2009, 3:19am

Thank you for the share

Jan 27, 2009, 2:56am, asparuh wrote:

Actually, this is from the Turkish-made "Bilge Kağan" comics made in the late 1980-early 1990s, which were about the Turks (Tujue 突厥, Gök Türks) of the 8th century

I even have this one, along with other comics made in similar series which were all about Ancient Central Asian Turkic History. In fact, they were the ones that made interested in this field during my early elementary school years

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 27, 2009, 3:23am

Ok,thanks for that information.
You are right.
It´s really a mistery.

I´m glad your like my images.
And i am so glad to be here too.
This is like a big family.
Thank you !

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 27, 2009, 3:38am

OK,Now some photos of Chengiz Khan...

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 27, 2009, 3:56am

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 27, 2009, 4:01am

Mongols pictures

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by altar on Jan 27, 2009, 1:47pm

Great pics, Asparukh. Thank you.

Welcome to the board. Nice to see Bulgarians at there who have interest Steppe History.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 27, 2009, 2:27pm

Thanks man,

I am so happy to be here.
I love this.

Bye!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 27, 2009, 8:44pm

Nice pictures

Btw, do you happen to know from which movie or documentary or TV show is that Attila photo from?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 28, 2009, 2:32am

I 'm not shure .I think it's a documentary movie.
I found it on internet.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 28, 2009, 4:31am

Hmm I see, ok thanx

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Feb 19, 2009, 1:29am

Here is Image i found for you of Khan Kubrat with his five sons

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Feb 19, 2009, 1:42am

This is my personal drawing of a Bulgarian warrior.
I´m still trying to improve the horse

.so...excuse me if it´s not perfect.

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Feb 19, 2009, 1:45am

This is an image of the Ottoman turks :

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Feb 19, 2009, 2:19pm

That's actually Ottomans

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Feb 20, 2009, 2:22am

Hello again to all the members !
I found these images for you:

The Magyar King Arpad.

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Feb 20, 2009, 2:23am

ATTILA

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Feb 20, 2009, 2:27am

Another two pictures from my personal record.
The TATARS :
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Feb 20, 2009, 2:27am

The Steppe history is Absolutelly fascinating !

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on Feb 20, 2009, 2:57am

Feb 20, 2009, 2:27am, asparuh wrote:

Another two pictures from my personal record.
The TATARS :
[image]

This picture is actually a screenshot from the Russian fantazy movie "Day Watch" it was supposed to depict Tamerlan's army, but they actually look more like Khazak warriors and also speak Kazakh in the movie for obvious reasons (the director of the movie is half Kazakh)

I actually already put the whole episode with Tamerlan from that movie in another thread. But for those who haven't watched it yet. Here it's again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkJUvGbx-vQ

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Feb 20, 2009, 2:35pm

That movie is great.How can i find .Very interesting.
Thank you ?
And can you explain Tamerland is fightning against who here.
Against the sassanids or persians ?
What is the name of the movie ?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by fangao66 on Feb 22, 2009, 11:58pm

fantastic pictures
[img][/img]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by fangao66 on Feb 23, 2009, 12:43am

The xiongnu

Xiongnu
Post by fangao66 on Feb 23, 2009, 1:08am

Xiongnu headhunter

http://www.cgmodel.cn/viewthread.php?tid=22566&fromuid=0

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Feb 23, 2009, 3:16am

Greetings fangao66, welcome aboard, and thank you for the pictures

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on Feb 23, 2009, 5:15pm

Feb 20, 2009, 2:35pm, asparuh wrote:

That movie is great.How can i find .Very interesting.
Thank you ?
And can you explain Tamerland is fightning against who here.
Against the sassanids or persians ?
What is the name of the movie ?

The name of the movie is "Day Watch" (Denvnoi dozor). There was a site where it was possible to watch it for free with English subtitles. But unfortunately it doesn't work now. :-/

Though, I have to say only a very short part relates to the nomads and I have posted the link with this part already.

But that movie is in fact quite famous, and I believe you can find a DVD in Bulgaria.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Feb 23, 2009, 9:55pm

Even I found it in Turkey

I had watched the first episode in cinema back in 2005, and last year I found the second movie's DVD in a store here

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Feb 24, 2009, 1:12am

Hello!
I found a picture of Eomer-actor from the movie Lord of the rings.
Actually his helmet and the whole armour of him and his Rohan warriors remind me of the steppe warriors.
I know it's just a movie but

just thought about the coincidence.
Actually the Rohan riders in the movie were moreless Ancient Scandinavians or Vikings.
The horse tail helmet is a typical step element popular amongst the step nations.What do you think?
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on Feb 24, 2009, 1:35am

Good observation !

We have actually already been discussing this question here:
http://steppes.proboards23.com/index.cgi....read=992&page=1

The culture of Rohan was supposed to be modeled on the Gothic culture. Goths were very influenced by Sarmatians. They treated their horses as their biggest treasure, were perfect horsemen and even had horse archers like Steppans, that was unusual for settled cultures as a general matter.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on Feb 24, 2009, 7:02am

The look of the Rohan in the movie is loosely based upon Vendel period Swedes.

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Feb 24, 2009, 9:23pm

Feb 24, 2009, 7:02am, hjernespiser wrote:

The look of the Rohan in the movie is loosely based upon Vendel period Swedes.

exactly. the osprey books on both the Vikings (elite) and Arthur and the Anglo-Saxons (MaA) (odd title

) both feature examples of those type of helmets. though some of the Rohan helmets also have a certain spangenhelm feature...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Feb 24, 2009, 11:08pm

Ok,Thank you guys.I got it right.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by darien on Apr 15, 2009, 2:49pm

Hey Everyone!

I've just found this thread and I have to tell you, it's really amazing! I don't know if you've seen this but here's a part of the great panorama picture of Ópusztaszer, Hungary:

Here you can read about the picture here:
http://www.opusztaszer.hu/site//index.ph....d=18&Itemid=174

Another one; the monument of Heroes square in Budapest:

Keep up the good work! Best regards from Hungary!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 15, 2009, 4:52pm

Greetings Darien, welcome aboard, and thanx for the nice pics 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on Apr 18, 2009, 4:01pm

Heh Lord of the Rings, where Vikings were steppe people. It's an, 'interesting' idea. Nonetheless, I have to say I really enjoyed this fantasy scene:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVvUnhEs_g&feature=related

skip to 0:55

How light cavalry can slice through an entire mile of armored mass - heh, it was pretty sweet. I remember laughing and cheering at the same time during this scene in the movies

Something majestic about cavalry charges.

BTW, I heard before that during the battle of Mohi, the Hungarian King rode through his ranks clanking either shields or spears - urging them to remember who they came from. Nonetheless, I liked the scene

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 19, 2009, 12:46am

Well this one was still good (btw all those Rohirrim were armored so they weren't really "light cavalry"), the "Helmsdeep Charge" scene at the end of the second movie is way more hilarious because the hostile weird creatures there were far better armed & much heavily armored than the ones in the last film

Check it here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpwsKRpKS_M&feature=related

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on Apr 19, 2009, 9:20am

ROFL! Yeah that was kinda shocking too, how all those heavy infantry were just pushed aside and trampled down heh. Yeah yeah it's fantasy but still... that's not PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE!!! heh!

Hmm btw, what happens when you cross a Mongol with a Viking... a horseman of Rohan! Well... in my case my daughter will be a horsewoman

No wait, shieldmaiden of Rohan! lol I think I'll buy the full DVD set so she can watch it when she comes in age

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 19, 2009, 7:53pm

Yeah when I first the movie in the theater, I was like "Oh what the hell is going on? How come they could crush that heavy phalanx formation?!"

That's a very good idea bro

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Apr 19, 2009, 9:05pm

the cavalry charges from LotR 2 & 3 were the absolutely worst crappiest computer-animated nuts i ever had to endure, anyone with a brain msut have gotten serious headache watching this nuts and similar unrealistic scenes.

Apr 19, 2009, 12:46am, admin wrote:

Well this one was still good (btw all those Rohirrim were armored so they weren't really "light cavalry"),

armour has nothing to do with cavalry being light or heavy. weather or not a cavalry is light or heavy depends on the size (and subsequently weight) of horse and rider.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 20, 2009, 2:36pm

I thought the term "heavy cavalry" is used for cavalry wearing heavy armor.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Apr 20, 2009, 5:35pm

no not at all, but that's a common misconception

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 21, 2009, 5:27pm

Hmmmm that's weird :-/

What is heavy and what is light, if so?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Apr 21, 2009, 7:22pm

well in the late middle ages europeans began serious horse-breeding to get better and specialized horse breeds for warfare. the result was that european horses were trained to bear more armour and riders with heavy armour. this was only the case in western europe and eastern europe and the muslim lands favoured speed without much armour. then europeans with the introduction of Hussars mostly adopted light cavalries for themselves, the horses beign mostly imported from eastern europe. anyways, selection for the branches of cavalry depended on the size of the horse and rider, heavy cavalry was expected to charge, so large horses and men were selected because they could bear down most weight on the enemy. on the opposite end, light cavalry was expected primarily to be fast, so small, agile horses were selected and smaller men who wouldn't slow down the horses with their weight were choosen. so it was already determined by size that you're serving with which branch of cavalry.

in case of Mongols, all of them were light cavalry by this definition, although it is technically inaccurate to speak of heavy or light cavalry before the early modern age. though light, that still means they could have worn armour.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 22, 2009, 11:34am

Hmmmm I see, thanx

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on Apr 22, 2009, 8:14pm

Mongol lines consisted of 3 lines of light cavalry and 2 lines of heavy cavalry in that ratio, 2:3. 6 light soldiers, 4 heavy soldiers in ten-man arban (squad). Light cavalry manages to do most of the work however it seems, heavy just cleans up the stubborn dudes.

But in European standards, Mongols never had plate mail armor, and many generals did not wish to use the larger stallion breed of horses as it slowed down the rest of the army who rode faster and more agile horses. So the last 2 lines of the army in most Mongol armies can't really compare to European heavy cavalry. Unless you count Liegnitz of course, but by that time the Mongols were veterans and Teutonics were still fools. By this time the Mongol armies utilised heavy cataphract tactics.

On the wide open steppes however where the horse archer rules supreme, doing so is suicide.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by tantalus on Apr 23, 2009, 11:03am

Apr 22, 2009, 8:14pm, subugatai wrote:

Mongol lines consisted of 3 lines of light cavalry and 2 lines of heavy cavalry in that ratio, 2:3. 6 light soldiers, 4 heavy soldiers in ten-man arban (squad). ...

Subu'atai,
I do not doubt you. But do you have a reference for the above? And/or Mongol formations in general? I am only looking for sources for my own learning. Thanks.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on Apr 23, 2009, 3:07pm

I believe I read that first in "The Devil's Horsemen" a few years ago, a popular book. But I've also seen this formation referenced in other sources which to be honest I just can't remember which one specifically, they have complete diagrams and battle maps of different battles with the Mongol armies using the 3:2 cavalry formation optimised for feigned-retreat warfare. The books were focused on the European conquests however.

To be honest though, All but one historical source on the Mongols are either Perso-centric, Sino-centric or Euro-centric - some more then others. So anything is sketchy at best.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 23, 2009, 8:05pm

And the presence of Teutonic Knights at Legnica (Liegnitz) is dubious. The bulk of that army was made up of Polish troops, with some other European (mostly German) mercenaries.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Apr 23, 2009, 8:59pm

Apr 23, 2009, 3:07pm, subugatai wrote:

I believe I read that first in "The Devil's Horsemen" a few years ago, a popular book. But I've also seen this formation referenced in other sources which to be honest I just can't remember which one specifically, they have complete diagrams and battle maps of different battles with the Mongol armies using the 3:2 cavalry formation optimised for feigned-retreat warfare. The books were focused on the European conquests however.

To be honest though, All but one historical source on the Mongols are either Perso-centric, Sino-centric or Euro-centric - some more then others. So anything is sketchy at best.

Devil's Horsemen is popular history, not a scientific work, i wouldn't take that book serious on anything.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Apr 23, 2009, 9:01pm

Apr 23, 2009, 8:05pm, admin wrote:

And the presence of Teutonic Knights at Legnica (Liegnitz) is dubious. The bulk of that army was made up of Polish troops, with some other European (mostly German) mercenaries.

it's doubted mostly by Polish (who incidentally hate the Teutonic Order) based on the fatc that the annales of the Order didn't mention this involvement. however that doesn't automatically rule out the possibility because the Grand Master was not present (and only that would have been mentioned). it would be interesting to find out who claimed first the presence of Teutonic Knights at Legnica and the specific historical source.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on Apr 24, 2009, 3:01pm

Devil's Horseman was not the only reference to where I found this ratio mentioned, so it's quite plausible at the very least. It makes sense as well as it's just impossible to win a field battle through light cavalry alone, raiding however sure.

To be honest though, in some books I also found quite disturbing (as usual) demonifications, nowadays I take everything foreign history writes about my people with a grain of salt ne ways, since I also found "Demon" "Hideous" "Devil" "Evil" Pagan" "Heretic" as typical titles by historical texts.

Steppe history is like making the best guess.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 24, 2009, 7:08pm

Apr 23, 2009, 9:01pm, temujin wrote:

Yes, but if you notice, in Western Europe and the Americans, the battle is always portrayed and thought as if fought primarily between the Mongols and Teutonic Knights. No one thinks the majority were Poles, while German and other knights formed only some of the units.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on Apr 24, 2009, 11:21pm

Hehe Polish are too nice and forgiving to Tatars... I'd rather Mongols killed more Germans then Poles

No offense Temudjin

Meh, to be honest I'd be happier if we reached Anglo-land, since the German and Swiss people (aka "Wogs" in Anglo-Australian racial categorisation) are pretty cool

Ne ways on a historical sense, not so good with it these days it's been a year since my personal studies - but I agree with what you said about the Teutonic buckethelms. I've also noticed so many drawings have been made in regards to the Mongol VS Teutonic buttwhoop. Polish soldiers are cut off from the battle in history, and for Mohi as well - it's all about the Knights Templar or some sh-t.

But hey, I can't say I like the Teutonics though, what they did to the Lithuanians under "God's Will" disgusts me.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on Apr 25, 2009, 2:29pm

Hey guys! Greetings from Bulgaria!

http://www.forum.bg-nacionalisti.org/gallery/834_28_03_09_5_35_13.jpeg

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Apr 25, 2009, 9:44pm

Apr 24, 2009, 11:21pm, subugatai wrote:

Hehe Polish are too nice and forgiving to Tatars... I'd rather Mongols killed more Germans then Poles

No offense Temudjin

Meh, to be honest I'd be happier if we reached Anglo-land, since the German and Swiss people (aka "Wogs" in Anglo-Australian racial categorisation) are pretty cool

no offense taken but some nationalistic motivated Poles just piss me off. actually Poles not only claim there were no Teutonic Knights but that they actually won the battle... ::)

anyways, there's no political motivation from my side to get the Teutonic Order ivnolved because if they were present, they were defeated, so what would be my motivation to include them in the battle?

at last note, in the 13th century Germanization of Silesia was in full swing and Silesia was a dependency of the HRE due to the seperation of Poland in small duchies, it is quite difficult for me to call them Polish knights but Silesian knights, i'd prefer to use that because it doesn't imply them being Poles or Germans...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on Apr 26, 2009, 2:49pm

Quote:

no offense taken but some nationalistic motivated Poles just piss me off. actually Poles not only claim there were no Teutonic Knights but that they actually won the battle...

OMFG you serious?!!! O.o
Show me such a claim please

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on Apr 26, 2009, 7:42pm

Apr 24, 2009, 7:08pm, admin wrote:

Well, first of all, technically it wasn't possible because there were not too many Teutonic knights who were the elite troops. A thousand of Teutonic knights would be a tremendous army. Most of the Teutonic Order army consisted of auxiallary troops, knights formed only a small elite.

In the famous battle on Ice, when Livonian knights were defeated by the Russian Prince Alexander Nevsky (some historians theorize that he did it with the direct help of Mongols) only 400 knights were killed according to the Russian chronicles which was almost a fantastic number for its time, the number of auxillary Order's troops killed was much more greater but it was not even important, so the Russian chronicle goes on by saying and the unknown number of "auxillaries was killed." For the sake on objectivity I have to say that contemporary European chronicles gave even a much smaller number of the knights killed (around a few dozens) which nevertheless was considered an impressive number.

As for the Liegnica battle, there is no doubt that the majority of troops were formed of Polish and Czech units. Teutonic knights could also participate for sure, but their number couldn't have been more then a few hundreds at best.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 26, 2009, 11:43pm

Thanx for the info. Yes, if the Teutonic Knights are counted, other European mercenaries should be counted as well.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on Apr 27, 2009, 4:24pm

Apr 26, 2009, 11:43pm, admin wrote:

Thanx for the info. Yes, if the Teutonic Knights are counted, other European mercenaries should be counted as well.

You kidding? That's going to add to the list of Europeans being under total pawnage, your books will be responded with a big "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on Apr 27, 2009, 5:30pm

My pics

So called Flying squad, Bulgarian revolutioners against the Ottoman empire
http://www.forum.bg-nacionalisti.org/gallery/834_28_03_09_5_35_13.jpeg

Bulgarian cavalary in the Balkan war
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7818/1910bgtroopsbetween1910nn4.jpg

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 27, 2009, 8:29pm

Quote:

You kidding? That's going to add to the list of Europeans being under total pawnage, your books will be responded with a big "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

ROFL

Quote:

My pics

So called Flying squad, Bulgarian revolutioners against the Ottoman empire
http://www.forum.bg-nacionalisti.org/gallery/834_28_03_09_5_35_13.jpeg

Bulgarian cavalary in the Balkan war
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7818/1910bgtroopsbetween1910nn4.jpg

Hi Thracianglad, welcome aboard.

Unfortunately, your pictures have clearly nothing to do with this thread. Bulgaria was and is never a part of the Steppe.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on Apr 29, 2009, 12:00am

Nope, dude

This guys are descedants of the Bulgars, who cames from the steppes ::)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/da/Khazar0.png
reconstruction of Bulgar warrior
http://media.photobucket.com/image/Bulga....onstruction.jpg

Bulgar symbols http://web.hit.bg/bgsviat/vrazki/protobulgarians.jpg
khan-yuvigi Ispor or Asparuh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOkpq6xBOrY&feature=related

Khan-yuvigi Tervel the savior of Europe http://store.picbg.net/pubpic/A3/9A/6d0f0e34d504a39a.jpeg

Bulgar riding http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTKH6qbTfOY&feature=channel_page

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 29, 2009, 12:46am

Sorry friend, they are not the descendents of the Bulgars, or let's say the majority are not. The Bulgars were a Turkic people who ruled over the Thraco-Slavic residents of modern Bulgaria.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on Apr 29, 2009, 3:22pm

Apr 29, 2009, 12:46am, admin wrote:

Sorry friend, they are not the descendents of the Bulgars, or let's say the majority are not. The Bulgars were a Turkic people who ruled over the Thraco-Slavic residents of modern Bulgaria.

So isn't our name Bulgaria?!

Yes u r right we are mixed Bulgars, Thracians and Slavs. And Bulgars didn't rule the Slavs and the Thracians, they just were in Union.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pSttx_skzA&feature=channel_page

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Apr 29, 2009, 5:55pm

No, you Thraco-Slavs were their subjects, the real Bulghars ruled you, just like how the Germanic Franks ruled over the Celto-Latin Gauls who are now called French

The amount of real Bulghar (which is Turkic) origins among the modern Bulgarian population must be very low.

But anyway, we already have other threads about this, the Bulgarians are not our topic here

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 5, 2009, 1:51pm

Apr 29, 2009, 5:55pm, admin wrote:

No, you Thraco-Slavs were their subjects, the real Bulghars ruled you, just like how the Germanic Franks ruled over the Celto-Latin Gauls who are now called French

Dude, the Slavs and Bulgars were in union, maybe the the Thracians were ruled by them, but the Slavs and Bulgars were united. Bulgars weren't enough strong against the Byzantines, because of that they found a friend.

So some pics

Bulgars priest - so called colober
http://media.photobucket.com/image/%25D0....ryan/shaman.jpg

the sword of khan-yuvigi Kubrat
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_32FEB60Zmv4/Rg....s400/kubrat.jpg

The horseman from Madara
http://natcomunesco.mfa.government.bg/album%20madara/images/Madara_05_jpg.jpg

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on May 5, 2009, 2:11pm

Quote:

No, you Thraco-Slavs were their subjects, the real Bulghars ruled you

ROFL Khagan, the way you said it... are you aware that it kinda sounds like; YOU GOT OWNED! o.O

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on May 5, 2009, 7:49pm

I would actually disagree with this point of view.

First of all, we don't really know the exact number of Bulgars that moved to Balkans. It might in fact be quite siginificant. Secondly, modern Bulgarian are not just direct descendants of local Thracian Slavonic population. They are in fact a product of intermixing between Turkic Bulgars, Slavonic population and also remnants of local Thracians.

A ruling class of nomadic Bulgars didn't exist separately from the Slavonic population. While in the beginning it was a kind of ruler-subject relationship with the passage of time it transferred to symbiosis, and finally to the stage when Bulgars and Slavonics complitely merged into a new Bulgarian ethnicity. So, in my opinion, it's obvious that Bulgarians are both descendants of Slavonic people and nomadic Turkic Bulgars. Moreover, the role of nomadic Bulgar heritage for the Bulgarian self-consciosness and self-identity couldn't be overestimated. It has been always regarded as "our own" in Bulgaria and Bulgar component is actually much more imortant for the early Bulgarian history than it's Slavonic component.

Bulgarian history begins with Khan Kubrat in pre-pontic steppe rather than with some Slavonic warlords that invaded Thrace from the North.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 5, 2009, 10:42pm

Bulgarian warrior
[image]

Bulgars

king Kaloyan(Yoan or John) of Bulgar againt the crusaders
[image]

khan-yuvigi Ispor, also called Asparuh, crossing Danube river and establish Bulgaria
[image]

and one beautiful Bulgarian bagatur girl :-*

Tartars.... Actually I am not sure
[image]

Getic warrior
[image]

Thracian horses, image from the tomb in my town

Homer said really good words about their horses in "Iliad"
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on May 6, 2009, 1:34am

[image]

One day I'm going to have to dress up my wife in that outfit, arm her with a bow and sit her on a horse bareback...

... that pose has a very unique charm...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 6, 2009, 1:37am

May 6, 2009, 1:34am, subugatai wrote:

One day I'm going to have to dress up my wife in that outfit, arm her with a bow and sit her on a horse bareback...

... that pose has a very unique charm...

Good idea, dude! Sorry, but I gonna steal it 8-)

I mean the idea

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 6, 2009, 1:43am

Hun warrior (Xuongnu)
[image]

Bulgarian hunters
[image]

Pecheneg warrior
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on May 6, 2009, 8:24am

May 5, 2009, 10:42pm, thracianglad wrote:

Tartars.... Actually I am not sure
[image]

These are supposed to be Polovitsians from the illustration to the "Tale of Igor's Campaign."

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 6, 2009, 9:24am

Cumans
[image]

I think these waits the Cumans

Khazar warrior or Bulgar
[image]

Thracian warrior in Roman mural, Serditsa
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by altar on May 6, 2009, 8:04pm

Thracianglad,

Dont add pictures which includes Anti-Turk Sentiments of Bulgarian Racist Groups !

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on May 7, 2009, 7:07am

May 6, 2009, 1:43am, thracianglad wrote:

Pecheneg warrior
[image]

I want to point something out here in light of the earlier discussions about Magyar costume... Notice this man's kaftan? See how it is held closed by "frogs", that is, the cloth buttons. This was a popular style on the western steppes. There's historic artwork showing Bulgars with similar kaftans that I've posted somewhere here before.

Pechenegs are contemporaneous with the early Magyars. And yet many reconstruction drawings of Magyar costume shows the Gokturk double lapel style.

Interestingly I found this link http://wychwood.wikidot.com/kit-coats which talks very briefly about the frogs.

"The Alan kaftan finds are generally quite similar to each other. These all feature asymmetrical openings on the left, single lapels (on the outer panel), no standing collars and cloth frogs. They are cut with large underarm gussets- sometimes really obscenely large underarm gussets. They also have two slits down the back, from waist height to the bottom, allowing plenty of movement. The 'skirt' is cut separately from the 'shirt' and then attached. They are normally lined (often with fur), and feature bands of decoration down all exposed edges.

Frogging (cloth buttons and loops) seems to have spread from cultures in contact with the Khazars- such as the Bulgars, Alans and presumably also the Rus.

In these two pictures of Hauk and Sighfridh, Hauk's red kaftan is in the nomadic style. Note the cloth frogs and the single lapel."

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 7, 2009, 3:24pm

May 6, 2009, 8:04pm, altar wrote:

Thracianglad,

Dont add pictures which includes Anti-Turk Sentiments of Bulgarian Racist Groups !

Nothing anti-turkic. If you mean the image " Cuman waiting" I mean that in the oposite there are the cumans, there aren't antyhing rascistic ::)

Well I don't think I could be against Cumans, because there is Cuman blood in the modern Bulgarians such as one of the greatest Bulgarian dynasti - Asen.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 7, 2009, 3:26pm

@hjernespiser

I will upload another pics about this frogs

Bulgarians killing Byzantines showed as saints

Bulgarian guards. I am not sure is that the same, but it looks like same
[image]

Aaagh.... I couldn't find the reconstruction of proto Bulgarian warrior. He had the same clothes

Khan Kubrat and his sons
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by altar on May 7, 2009, 7:24pm

May 7, 2009, 3:24pm, thracianglad wrote:

Nothing anti-turkic. If you mean the image " Cuman waiting" I mean that in the oposite there are the cumans, there aren't antyhing rascistic ::)

I mean Brannik image that I deleted. I didn't say the pic is racist, the group(Brannik) has Anti-Turk sentiment and racism. >:(

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on May 7, 2009, 8:20pm

Quote:

ROFL Khagan, the way you said it... are you aware that it kinda sounds like; YOU GOT OWNED! o.O

LOL

Quote:

I would actually disagree with this point of view.

First of all, we don't really know the exact number of Bulgars that moved to Balkans. It might in fact be quite siginificant. Secondly, modern Bulgarian are not just direct descendants of local Thracian Slavonic population. They are in fact a product of intermixing between Turkic Bulgars, Slavonic population and also remnants of local Thracians.

A ruling class of nomadic Bulgars didn't exist separately from the Slavonic population. While in the beginning it was a kind of ruler-subject relationship with the passage of time it transferred to symbiosis, and finally to the stage when Bulgars and Slavonics complitely merged into a new Bulgarian ethnicity. So, in my opinion, it's obvious that Bulgarians are both descendants of Slavonic people and nomadic Turkic Bulgars. Moreover, the role of nomadic Bulgar heritage for the Bulgarian self-consciosness and self-identity couldn't be overestimated. It has been always regarded as "our own" in Bulgaria and Bulgar component is actually much more imortant for the early Bulgarian history than it's Slavonic component.

Bulgarian history begins with Khan Kubrat in pre-pontic steppe rather than with some Slavonic warlords that invaded Thrace from the North.

Ok, yes you are right, I mean modern Bulgarians of course are not 100% Thraco-Slavic, but my point is that the majority are, or more correctly, the amount of original Bulghar-Turkic origins among modern Bulgarians is quite low. If these original Bulghars were larger in number, they wouldn't have been assimiliated. Plus, their language and culture does not have much deep impact on the Bulgarians, I mean the Ugrian Magyars probably have more Bulghar influence than the Bulgarians have (at least, this is what I have seen). Finally, the Bulgarians don't have any Turkic physical characters at all.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on May 7, 2009, 8:46pm

May 7, 2009, 3:26pm, thracianglad wrote:

Bulgarian guards. I am not sure is that the same, but it looks like same
[image]

it's similar but not the same. it has different origins.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 7, 2009, 9:04pm

May 7, 2009, 7:24pm, altar wrote:

May 7, 2009, 3:24pm, thracianglad wrote:

Nothing anti-turkic. If you mean the image " Cuman waiting" I mean that in the oposite there are the cumans, there aren't antyhing rascistic ::)

I mean Brannik image that I deleted. I didn't say the pic is racist, the group(Brannik) has Anti-Turk sentiment and racism. >:(

Well, How did you find out it is anti-turkic I don't know

Brannik was organisation of the Bulgarian youth during the WW2. Nowadays some skinheads calls themselves Branniks, but the pic was propaganda poster of the old one. So they weren't anti-turkic, because the Turkish was our alias during WW2. So I can't understand why you have removed my pic?!
Maybe it was used by rascist, but there was a Bulgar warrior. I haven't made propaganda! Dude I am anti-fascist(I am not anarchist or member of anti-fa groups), I didn't want to make advertise of the group(which doesn't exist nowadays), so I think it was wrong to delete my image.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 7, 2009, 9:13pm

May 7, 2009, 8:46pm, temujin wrote:

May 7, 2009, 3:26pm, thracianglad wrote:

Bulgarian guards. I am not sure is that the same, but it looks like same
[image]

it's similar but not the same. it has different origins.

I think that too, it is like the western European soldier's clothes from the renesance.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 7, 2009, 9:21pm

May 7, 2009, 8:20pm, admin wrote:

Quote:

ROFL Khagan, the way you said it... are you aware that it kinda sounds like; YOU GOT OWNED! o.O

LOL

Quote:

You are funny. How could the nation-master to disapear?! Have you ever seen Bulgarians? You can identify one of them, every men have different kind of face and skull.
Another question - It is not prooved that Bulgars were turkic tribe, as the Turkic in Altay. They had Europid faces, it is prooved because of found skulls from Volga Bulgaria of killed by Mongols people. After Danube Bulgarians becaming Christians many pagans were killed because they couldn't accept the new religion - Their skulls were Europid.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by altar on May 7, 2009, 10:56pm

May 7, 2009, 9:04pm, thracianglad wrote:

May 7, 2009, 7:24pm, altar wrote:

I mean Brannik image that I deleted. I didn't say the pic is racist, the group(Brannik) has Anti-Turk sentiment and racism. >:(

Well, How did you find out it is anti-turkic I don't know

Brannik was organisation of the Bulgarian youth during the WW2. Nowadays some skinheads calls themselves Branniks, but the pic was propaganda poster of the old one. So they weren't anti-turkic, because the Turkish was our alias during WW2. So I can't understand why you have removed my pic?!

Maybe it was used by rascist, but there was a Bulgar warrior. I haven't made propaganda! Dude I am anti-fascist(I am not anarchist or member of anti-fa groups), I didn't want to make advertise of the group(which doesn't exist nowadays), so I think it was wrong to delete my image.

Actually the pic was ok. However I was angry when I saw Brannik title. I saw many videos especially in Youtube about these guys who are hostile against Turks. One of them they burned a Turkish flag.

So I think you can understand me why I behave like this. If anyone put a group pic who burn Bulgarian flag. you also feel the same things like us.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on May 7, 2009, 11:42pm

thracianglad,

That's the image I was referencing. I posted it somewhere else here before. Yes, it shows frogged kaftans being worn by Bulgarians. Notice the fur lining? Those are also a bit different from the Alan style frogged closing, which it looks like one figure has (the blue kaftan with the single lapel on the right lined in red).

I think some Hungarian reconstructions try to ignore the frogged kaftan because the double-lapel GokTurk style is more "eastern" while the frogged kaftan does look very "western" (maybe it looks kind of Chinese though?) I think the Sassanian kaftans were closed in a similar manner.

As for the more modern frogs, I'm really unsure as to where that comes from. It is possible that's a hold over from the earlier frogged kaftans. The Rus took up that style too. They started adding wide cloth stripes going across the front of the breast. I thought that Western european soldiers didn't start wearing clothes like that until they started adopting the style from the East (i.e., Hussar fashion).

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 8, 2009, 12:00am

May 7, 2009, 10:56pm, altar wrote:

May 7, 2009, 9:04pm, thracianglad wrote:

Well, How did you find out it is anti-turkic I don't know

Brannik was organisation of the Bulgarian youth during the WW2. Nowadays some skinheads calls themselves Branniks, but the pic was propaganda poster of the old one. So they weren't anti-turkic, because the Turkish was our alias during WW2. So I can't understand why you have removed my pic?!

Maybe it was used by rascist, but there was a Bulgar warrior. I haven't made propaganda! Dude I am anti-fascist(I am not anarchist or member of anti-fa groups), I didn't want to make advertise of the group(which doesn't exist nowadays), so I think it was wrong to delete my image.

Yeah, because of that I told you there are new organisation Brannik(If I can call them organisation) and old organisation(without any anti-turkish feelings). They were fascist this is true, but they didn't hate Turkish. Nowadays Branniks are neo-nazi skinheads, nothing with the old one. Of course they are not supported by the government as the old one

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on May 8, 2009, 1:33am

May 7, 2009, 9:21pm, thracianglad wrote:

No it's not me who is funny, it's you. Ever heard of assimiliaton? There are many peoples who conquered others but got assimiliated into the conquered ones, such as the Franks, Normans or the various Turko-Mongol peoples in Northern China (Huns, Tabghach, Shatuo Turks, Kitans, Jürchens, Manchus, etc). The case for Bulgars was the same.

And ok, what if some Bulgar skulls are "Europoid"? Don't you know that these people lived next to Finno-Ugrian, Iranic and Slavic peoples at a time when religion or lifestyle wasn't a barrier between different peoples to mix with each other?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on May 8, 2009, 4:25am

Well, first of all I don't understand why being Turkic means being Mongoloid? It's already a mistake by itself. There are many Uighurs or Tatars that 100% more "Europoid" than any Bulgarian, yet nobody doubts that they are Turks or that their ancestors were Turks.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 8, 2009, 1:35pm

May 8, 2009, 4:25am, sarmat wrote:

Well, first of all I don't understand why being Turkic means being Mongoloid? It's already a mistake by itself. There are many Uighurs or Tatars that 100% more "Europoid" than any Bulgarian, yet nobody doubts that they are Turks or that their ancestors were Turks.

Isn't it true ::)

So Turkic(not Turkish one) were people who comes from Altay, it is not bad to be with Mongolic face of course, but the Turkic has Mongolic faces. I don't care about the language just about the DNA, I am really confused - is it a ethnical group of tribes or just the language

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 8, 2009, 2:00pm

May 8, 2009, 1:33am, admin wrote:

May 7, 2009, 9:21pm, thracianglad wrote:

Ok I don't care about the DNA of the Bulgars(I care but not in this topic

)
I wants to tell you that Bulgars didn't ruled over the Slavs, it was an anti-byzantine aliance. The creating of the Bulgarian nationality is during the khan Krum to tsar Boris I Michael. Khan Krum has changed the folk clothes of the Bulgarians and the Slavic with Avar folk clothes. Tsar Boris has change the religion and he became Christian. Union, not Slavery, it's true the Bulgars ruled the country, but they had tradition in the ruling of a country, not as Slavs at ruling of a tribe. As in the movie "The day of the rulers " - "My ancestors have ruled a tribe and they were right, I am ruling a state"(Khah Krum the Scary)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on May 8, 2009, 6:19pm

May 8, 2009, 1:35pm, thracianglad wrote:

May 8, 2009, 4:25am, sarmat wrote:

Isn't it true ::)

Well, you're probably talking about Gok-Tuks or Turkiuts the people with whom the name "Turks" was introduced in the World. Yes, they were Mongoloids, that's true.

However, those people are not direct ancestors of all the Turks in the world. In fact, when the word "Turk" became famous in Altai there had been already Turkic speaking Khazars and Bulgars in Europe and there had been Turkic speaking Xiongnu many centuries before those Altaic Turks.

So, it's apparent that the people which later were called Turkic or Turks had been there for a long time before Altaic Turks appeared.

Also, according to many sources they had different racial descriptions. Some of these tribes had clearly Europoid phenotype according to Chinese and other sources.

So, you can't ascribe Turkic to Mongoloid race only, unless you talk about Gok-Turks.

Being Turk means to have a certain culture, identity and language but not to be Mongoloid by default.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 8, 2009, 6:28pm

May 8, 2009, 6:19pm, sarmat wrote:

May 8, 2009, 1:35pm, thracianglad wrote:

Isn't it true ::)

There are two theories about Bulgars - Turkic or Iranian. And there was a movie about the Bulgars which prooved that they were European, so there they said that the Turkic are Mongoloid.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on May 8, 2009, 7:06pm

May 8, 2009, 6:28pm, thracianglad wrote:

There are two theories about Bulgars - Turkic or Iranian.

Nobody is taking "Iranian theory" seriously. There are also theories that Russians were the ancestors of Etruscans and that they created the disc of Festus. "Iranian theory" is from the same group anti-scientific "theories."

And there was a movie about the Bulgars which prooved that they were European, so there they said that the Turkic are Mongoloid.

My friend, are you seeking to prove something by movies that some obscured people filmed? I can make a movie today proving that Bulgars came from Mars and that Turks are natives of Austalia. You think that would be a substantial proof?

I suggest you to get more familiar with the works of professional historians and archeologists before watching some freaking movies on youtube.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on May 8, 2009, 9:06pm

That's wrong! The Martians are Hungarians not Bulgars!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 8, 2009, 10:55pm

May 8, 2009, 7:06pm, sarmat wrote:

May 8, 2009, 6:28pm, thracianglad wrote:

The movie is historical, not science fiction!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on May 9, 2009, 12:01am

May 8, 2009, 10:55pm, thracianglad wrote:

May 8, 2009, 7:06pm, sarmat wrote:

The movie is historical, not science fiction!

Yeah, not a pure science fiction, but "historical science fiction."

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 9, 2009, 12:23am

May 9, 2009, 12:01am, sarmat wrote:

May 8, 2009, 10:55pm, thracianglad wrote:

The movie is historical, not science fiction!

Yeah, not a pure science fiction, but "historical science fiction."

Hahahaa maybe I am wrong!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 9, 2009, 8:33pm

Picture from Bulgarian comics
[image]

Bulgarian khan or nobleman
[image]

khan Krum the Scary
[image]

khan Zavergan
[image]

Knyaz Svetoslav of Kiev beating a Khazar
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on May 10, 2009, 6:46pm

May 9, 2009, 8:33pm, thracianglad wrote:

Khazar warrior
[image]

I like the way you make your comments i.e. very arbitrary without looking at what is actually depicted on the picture.

Howcome this could be "a Khazar warrior" ? Or may be you meant the guy who is laying beneath with the shield with the star of David?

This is "Sviatoslav, prince of Rus, trampling a Khazar." Since Khazar has a symbol of Judaism on this shield, that statue was criticized in Russia for showing anti-semitic attitude.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 10, 2009, 7:30pm

May 10, 2009, 6:46pm, sarmat wrote:

May 9, 2009, 8:33pm, thracianglad wrote:

Khazar warrior
[image]

I like the way you make your comments i.e. very arbitrary without looking at what is actually depicted on the picture.

Howcome this could be "a Khazar warrior" ? Or may be you meant the guy who is laying beneath with the shield with the star of David?

This is "Sviatoslav, prince of Rus, trampling a Khazar." Since Khazar has a symbol of Judaism on this shield, that statue was criticized in Russia for showing anti-semitic attitude.

Aaaaah - sorry, yeah! I was surprised too, because it was written that he is Khazar warrior, but he is beating a Jew. Ok, I gotta change it!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on May 18, 2009, 2:27am

Hey !!!

Excelent posts.Finally someone except me post pictures here in the last three months.

Very good !
Speak to you soon.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 20, 2009, 7:57pm

Gerard Butler in the movie "Attila the Hun"
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on May 20, 2009, 9:45pm

Wow ! Cool picture of Attila.I have watched the movie several times.Many says it's not showin the real facts about the Huns,but i like it.And about the picture of the horse-warrior :
Yes,this is Svyatoslav of Kiev,who caused some problems of Bulgaria as well.He putted an end to the Khazar khanate and he probably died fighting with the Pechenegs.This is what the history facts tell.
I have picture of the last days of Khan Asparuh,who died defending Bulgaria fignting with the Khazars on the east border near Dnyeper and Dnestur rivers.
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 21, 2009, 8:01pm

Good one! I haven't seen it!
[image]

Asparuh in the movie the glory of the khan
[image]

Maybe this eagle belong to Asparuh, it is with Roman origin, but maybe it was captured in battle. On the eagle is wrote ISPOR, or Isperih the true name of Asparuh. Asparuh has Greek origin
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on May 23, 2009, 9:36am

Changing things up a bit. Does this go into this thread or the thread of peoples influenced by steppe cultures? Is Tibet considered part of steppe cultures (it's Central Asian for sure and the Tibetan plateau is considered an alpine steppe). I found these images awhile ago and just thought of them tonight.

These photos came from http://www3.utsidan.se/corax-e/travels/schizo2.htm They're of some Tibetan "war festival, full of horseracing, marksmanship from horseback, target shooting with crossbows all dressed up fantastic colorful traditional dress".

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on May 23, 2009, 10:34pm

May 23, 2009, 9:36am, hjernespiser wrote:

Changing things up a bit. Does this go into this thread or the thread of peoples influenced by steppe cultures? Is Tibet considered part of steppe cultures (it's Central Asian for sure and the Tibetan plateau is considered an alpine steppe). I found these images awhile ago and just thought of them tonight.

Apparently, some Tibetian tribes live nomadic style of life and culturally belong to the Great Steppe.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on May 24, 2009, 2:22am

Nice images.The ones of Asparuh are particularly good.
Again his armour show the Scytho-Sarmatian influence in the military clothing of the Bulgars.
About the Tibet people i don't know,they were conquered from the Mongols for some time,aren't they.

That's it.
Bye

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on May 24, 2009, 3:59am

Yea, the Mongols were there, but I think the Tibetans had some sort of steppe empire/kingdom too before Chingis. I'm just remembering vaguely this information from Grouset's Empire of the Steppes.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by thracianglad on May 24, 2009, 1:28pm

Tibetan culture is beautiful and rich!

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on May 24, 2009, 5:31pm

May 24, 2009, 3:59am, hjernespiser wrote:

Yea, the Mongols were there, but I think the Tibetans had some sort of steppe empire/kingdom too before Chingis. I'm just remembering vaguely this information from Grouset's Empire of the Steppes.

That is correct. Tibetians have a nomadic tradition that according to Chinese chronicles far predates the times of Genghis. Ancient Tibetian nomades were known as Qiangs to Chinese. This article gives some historical background.

http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/documents/TheWorldofTibetanNomadsSept14.pdf

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on May 30, 2009, 3:33pm

There are still nomads in Tibet it seems

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Jun 1, 2009, 11:51pm

Nomadic lifestyle isn't necessarily a requirement for this Forum because Noamdic lifestyle exists all over the world and Tibet isn't exactly flat, open grassland.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on Jun 2, 2009, 4:51am

Tuva isn't exactly flat, open grassland either. I'm just going to take a wild guess that the flat areas of the Tibetan Plateau are larger in square footage (or hectares) than the flat areas of Tuva.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on Jun 2, 2009, 6:53pm

Well. Mongolia isn't as well since large territories there are covered by mountains and forests. Needless to say that the mythical craddle of Turks are mountains of Altai...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by darien on Jun 8, 2009, 1:04pm

May 8, 2009, 9:06pm, hjernespiser wrote:

That's wrong! The Martians are Hungarians not Bulgars!

Are you referring to the Fermi paradox?

http://www.setileague.org/askdr/hungary.htm

BTW here's another pic of a Magyar horseman:
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jun 17, 2009, 4:12pm

Very nice picture of the Magyar horseman.
I always though Magyars were almost like brothers of the Bulgars
We have some much things in common.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by lasirene on Aug 5, 2009, 4:28pm

There is a Mongolian artist, Damba Tsolmon working in the DC area. His portrayals of warriors are quite nice.
Some are available through the Freer Gallery
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-15511100379495_2063_2021535

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Aug 6, 2009, 12:36pm

Greetings lasirene, welcome aboard

Nice drawing 8-)

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Aug 12, 2009, 4:50pm

Quite interesting,
I have pics like this in my collection.
Is moreless chinese like isn't it.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by illuminata on Aug 23, 2009, 3:42pm

This thread is full of very interesting images. Keep going with the good job

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Aug 24, 2009, 11:34am

Hi illuminata, thank you and welcome aboard

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by illuminata on Aug 26, 2009, 12:32am

Aug 24, 2009, 11:34am, admin wrote:

Hi illuminata, thank you and welcome aboard

Thank you for the welcome

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Aug 29, 2009, 1:31am

Hello ,

I would like to post some new pics of Mongol warriors.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Aug 29, 2009, 1:33am

My favourite reverse shootback

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Aug 29, 2009, 1:36am

That's the one from the famous movie for the Mongols.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Aug 29, 2009, 1:03pm

Nice ones

I wonder what the first picture is about. Who is it?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by nomadi on Sept 2, 2009, 2:56pm

OSMAN GAZI ( OTHMAN GHAZI ) founder of Ottomans

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by nomadi on Sept 2, 2009, 3:05pm

Jan 27, 2009, 3:19am, admin wrote:

Thank you for the share

Jan 27, 2009, 2:56am, asparuh wrote:

Actually, this is from the Turkish-made "Bilge Kağan" comics made in the late 1980-early 1990s, which were about the Turks (Tujue 突厥, Gök Türks) of the 8th century

It's Oghuz Kaghan

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 2, 2009, 6:00pm

No that's Bilge Qaghan.

Nice drawing of Osman Ghazi, though the bow is a bit too artistic/fantastic looking, and I'm sure Osman Ghazi didn't look that much of an Islamic guy

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by ahiskali on Sept 2, 2009, 6:10pm

I don't think anyone would go fighting or hunting with a Turban on

the cape looks like the one spawn has lol

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 3, 2009, 1:19pm

Of course turban was worn by warriors, some worn them over red felt caps, some worn them on helmets. But I don't think a 13th-14th century Turkmen beg or ghazi looked like that

In fact, that painting is based on the early 19th century fictional portrait of Osman I made by the palace artist Kapıdağlı Konstantin (Constantine of Kapıdağ), of Greek origin:

[image]

Here is the known info about the painter: http://www.megarevma.net/kapidagli.htm

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by modu on Sept 3, 2009, 2:57pm

Mehmed II. The Conqueror

[image]

His says " I will takes Constantinople or Constantinople takes me ! "

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on Sept 3, 2009, 10:36pm

The bow, the superman cape, and the green tight-fitting superhero shirt is what threw me...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by tengrikut on Sept 4, 2009, 5:10am

the bow looks like an amazon bow from Diablo II

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 4, 2009, 1:47pm

Sept 3, 2009, 2:57pm, modu wrote:

Mehmed II. The Conqueror

[image]

His says " I will takes Constantinople or Constantinople takes me ! "

Hmm ok but please remember that the title of this thread is "Pictures of Steppe Warriors". Osman I might be ok because he represents a group of Turks who had recently arrived from the Steppe, but Mehmed II doesn't have anything to do with the Steppe.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by modu on Sept 4, 2009, 5:32pm

He is warrior in our hearts's steppe

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by tengrikut on Sept 4, 2009, 5:41pm

unfortunately, this is not your hearts' forum

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by modu on Sept 4, 2009, 6:12pm

Okey.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by kenmirzz on Sept 7, 2009, 5:39am

Quote:

Nice drawing of Osman Ghazi, though the bow is a bit too artistic/fantastic looking, and I'm sure Osman Ghazi didn't look that much of an Islamic guy

Hi Mr Ihsan, why you said that Uthman Ertoghrul was not an Islamic guy? Just curious to know his belief. Maybe mixed of Tengerism and Islam? He did wage war against Non-believer Turk in Anatolia right?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by modu on Sept 7, 2009, 2:44pm

Some Historian says: Ertughrul Ghazi wasnt muslim. Because him's families have old Turkic names,only his son Osman(Uthman)have islamic names.And Uthman's sons have islamic names.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by kenmirzz on Sept 7, 2009, 6:12pm

Quote:

Some Historian says: Ertughrul Ghazi wasnt muslim. Because him's families have old Turkic names,only his son Osman(Uthman)have islamic names.And Uthman's sons have islamic names.

Thanks Mr Modu. That's understandable. Of course at a certain point of time, this Turkic tribe embraced Islam due to preaching of surrounding Persian and Arabs.

It's just that his photo is too Caucasoid with little to none Mongoloid features that was supposed to be the combined characteristics of Turkic and Mongol tribes.

Maybe your avatar represent the ancient Oghuz Turk better.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 7, 2009, 8:15pm

Of course both Ertughrul and Osman were muslims, but such Turks with nomadic background (which comprised the majority of Oghuz Turks at that time) were far from being orthodox muslims. They were infact muslims only in name, and kept most of their ancient beliefs alive until the 15th century. There were no officially non-muslim Turks in Anatolia at that time by the way, the conversions happened in the 10th-11th centuries.

By Islamic, I ment the clothes

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by modu on Sept 7, 2009, 10:09pm

Sept 7, 2009, 6:12pm, kenmirzz wrote:

Quote:

Some Historian says: Ertughrul Ghazi wasnt muslim. Because him's families have old Turkic names,only his son Osman(Uthman)have islamic names.And Uthman's sons have islamic names.

It's picture of Modu shanyu

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by kenmirzz on Sept 8, 2009, 4:16am

Quote:

hey were infact muslims only in name, and kept most of their ancient beliefs alive until the 15th century.

Mr Ihsan, as far as I know, The Turks believes and still pray to their dead ancestors, requesting blessing from them. They call it "Tawassul" or "Tashaffu". This practices has been denounced as innovation by the orthodox Muslims.

Maybe this is one of the retained influenced of their pre-islamic tradition. I read books published by Hakikat Kitabevi (WaqfIhlas) sanctioned this practice.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by ahiskali on Sept 8, 2009, 4:22am

those words don't sound Turkic at al

do you perhaps mean tasavvuf?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by modu on Sept 8, 2009, 3:47pm

Sept 8, 2009, 4:16am, kenmirzz wrote:

Quote:

hey were infact muslims only in name, and kept most of their ancient beliefs alive until the 15th century.

It is Tasavvuf ( Sufism) I think... not Tawassul

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 8, 2009, 4:10pm

The Turks have retained their ancestors and deads cult strongly enough to have Middle Easterners, especially Iranians, getting influenced from it too. That's why there were no major tombs in the Middle East before the Turks came in big numbers in the 11th century. As for the words Tawassul and Tashaffu, I have no idea.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by kenmirzz on Sept 9, 2009, 4:10am

Hello all

No, I am sure it's not "Tasavvuf". It's Tawassul which means seeking intermediary of the dead when praying to God. The Turks ( those who are non-wahhabis) practiced this, even the Indian emulate it too and were branded as "Grave-worshipper" by the extremist orthodox.

Anyway, sorry for deviating from the topic.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by modu on Sept 10, 2009, 2:23pm

Great Steppe Warrior

" Modu Shanyu "

[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by altar on Sept 28, 2009, 11:40pm

Warriors of Eurasia: From the VIII Century BC to the XVII Century AD By Mikhael Gorelik
Publisher: Montvert Publications 1995 | 48 Pages | ISBN: 1874101078 | PDF | 22 MB

In ancient and medieval times the lands of what is now referred to as the former Soviet Union provided the battlegrounds for some of the most fantastic warriors history has known. The purpose of this book is to give us a glimpse of what they looked like. It features twenty-two full colour plates showing expert reconstructions of nearly seventy exotic warriors from places as far apart as from the Danube in the west to the Pacific Ocean in the east, where Chuckchi warriors even terrorised the inhabitants of the western coasts of America! Each plate is accompanied by its own text giving a short historical outline and a description of the military characteristics and arms and armour of its principals.

Download

http://letitbit.net/download/3110.33cad3....urasia.rar.html

http://depositfiles.com/files/653zlsyhm

http://uploading.com/files/b479e1dm/Warriors.of.Eurasia.rar/

http://sharingmatrix.com/file/358951/Warriors.of.Eurasia.rar

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=OAOGKAEC

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on Sept 29, 2009, 7:49am

Chukchi armor

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 29, 2009, 1:14pm

Gosh, my dear Altar, I had been looking for that book

Thank you very much! Too bad I have to leave home now to attend my MA graduation ceremony, will download it immediately after I'll come back

Nice photo Hjernespiser

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by altar on Sept 29, 2009, 2:07pm

Glad to hear it, My Ulu Qagan.

Btwn Congratulations for your Graduation

Take this as a small gift

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by sarmat on Sept 29, 2009, 6:56pm

Many thanks to Altar for sharing this book !

And congratulations to the Qagan from me as well !

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Sept 29, 2009, 7:33pm

Thanks guys

Actually that was my MA graduation's ceremony, which I had already graduated last year but they made the ceremony this year

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by temujin on Sept 29, 2009, 7:45pm

yeah that Chukchi armour is fascinating...

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by subugatai on Oct 7, 2009, 2:06pm

It looks like having chainmail wrapped around yourself =/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by ivan55599 on Oct 7, 2009, 6:10pm

Sept 29, 2009, 7:49am, hjernespiser wrote:

Chukchi armor

is that thing for camouflage or armor?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by chichak on Nov 22, 2009, 1:59am

Greetings from a new Hungarian member!

The forum's got some fantastic collection up here.
I would especially like to thank for gie's link on Siberian reconstructions! That was one of the most fascinating sites I have come across lately. Altar's link was also a great surprise as well as the beautiful artworks by Ganbat & grmc12tarkhan! Thank you all!

Now moving on to the more critical aspects:
Is it just me, or do others also see the blunder in how most of the drawings are showing large horses, instead of the smaller Central Asian types?
We also shouldn't forget that armor was a very costly equipment and only the richer warriors could afford to buy them or get them done. So beside the flashy armors the majority still fought lightly.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by hjernespiser on Nov 22, 2009, 4:56am

Which images? Because a horse type is Central Asian doesn't necessarily mean it was small so if a drawing were to blunder, it would depend upon time and more specific place of what that drawing was meant to depict. The Ferghana horses certainly were much larger than say, the Mongol pony.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Nov 22, 2009, 2:10pm

Greetings Chichak, welcome aboard and thank you for the nice comments

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by chichak on Nov 22, 2009, 5:07pm

Quote:

Which images? Because a horse type is Central Asian doesn't necessarily mean it was small so if a drawing were to blunder, it would depend upon time and more specific place of what that drawing was meant to depict. The Ferghana horses certainly were much larger than say, the Mongol pony.

My apologies, it was indeed naive from me to declare something without specifying what I meant.
Naturally the later periods reduced the sphere of the mori ('mongolian') type horse, and the ancestors of the Turkmen horse like breed were dominant in the southern part of central Asia.
I wanted to reffer to primarily how, the so to say 'classical' nomads of the Eurasian steppes: Scythian, (early) Sarmatian, Hun, Bulgar, Avar, Mongolk etc. primarily used short robust featured horses at least that's what I believe the archeological finds deduce. Naturally when these people moved into territory where other, more larger horse types were bred, they shifted to these types gradually.

Alright, examples that I think as wrong interpretations:
[image]

I am not sure about the more southern kushans, parthians, but I suspect they used the short, stocky type.

Horses I find more faithful to the equestrian nomads are having resemblance to the przewalski horse. Like in these examples:
[image]

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Dec 9, 2009, 5:32pm

Here is a picture of Bulgar Khan Asparuh from the Original movie .

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Dec 9, 2009, 6:15pm

Which movie is that?

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Dec 16, 2009, 3:06am

Khan Asparuh-The Glory of the Khan.

Or try just - The Glory of the Khan - 681

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Dec 16, 2009, 9:58pm

Ah, this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/681_AD:_The_Glory_of_Khan

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0444982/

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Dec 25, 2009, 1:21am

Yes !

Nice image .

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Dec 25, 2009, 8:56pm

Thanks

If I'll find that movie in the future, I would like to watch it.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Dec 29, 2009, 2:26am

Ok,No problem you would know more about Bulgarians then.
Try Bit Comet program.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by asparuh on Jan 2, 2010, 2:23am

Another pic from the Bulgarian connection

The Bulgars on the riverbank of Danube in 7 century.

Happy new year to All members !

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by aynur on Jan 25, 2010, 5:48pm

[image]

Tajik cavalry and Sogdian infantry and cavalry.

[image]

Random Central Asian warriors.

[image]

Golden Horde cavalry, Russian nobleman in the masked helmet.

[image]

Lithuanians and a Zaporozhian Cossack.

Re: Pictures of Steppe Warriors
Post by admin on Jan 27, 2010, 12:01am

Jan 25, 2010, 5:48pm, aynur wrote:

Tajik cavalry and Sogdian infantry and cavalry.

That's actually Gokturk (Tu-jue 突厥), not Tajik