Ungern Khan

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Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 19, 2006, 3:21pm

I start that thread with few pics:

His flag:

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by ahiskali on Aug 19, 2006, 4:11pm

why did he had the title khan?

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 19, 2006, 5:35pm

Quote:

why did he had the title khan?

Forum's Mongolian member's words:

Quote:

Reincarnation of The Great Khaan. As Mongols say : "Hubilgaan"="High shaman", "Daini Burkan/Burhan"="God of War"...he is becoming more & more respected like Adolf Hitler among (few like me) Mongols.

He also married Bogdo Khan's daughter.

And I think that he deserved that name after his victory of chinese occupation-troops in Mongolia.

And he was also royal-family, because Von Ungern-Sternberg's ancestor was some royal Hun-chief (I don't know about that much).

Well, he was white general also in Russian civil war, but he refused to join to Koltshak alliance.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by admin on Aug 19, 2006, 6:08pm

Can someone please write a short life-story of Von Ungern-Stenberg?

Thank you for the pictures

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 19, 2006, 6:21pm

http://www.answers.com/topic/roman-ungern-von-sternberg

Here is some article, but I don't trust that 100% at all...

It includes many wrong claims.

Quote:

Ungern von Sternberg's philosophy was an exceptionally muddled mixture of Russian nationalism with Chinese and Mongol beliefs.

Only "russian nationalism" was his anticommunism. And he called russians to lower people.

Quote:

In real life, his brief rule of Mongolia was characterised by looting and a reign of terror by his army.

That terror was not against Mongolian people, but against harmful minorities like jews, chinese (What those nations did in Mongolia anyway?).

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by admin on Aug 19, 2006, 6:39pm

Thank you for the info

He seems to be a mad-man. What do you think?

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 19, 2006, 6:45pm

Quote:

Thank you for the info

He seems to be a mad-man. What do you think?

Well, I consider him to Great Hero, because he fought for good things in my opinion.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by yullugtegin on Aug 19, 2006, 7:02pm

Thank you verinenparoni for greeting that leader to us. I think he is admirable...

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 19, 2006, 11:02pm

He made many good things, also outside of military:

After cleansing Urga of Chinese influence, Ungern-Sternberg settled down to the business of consolidating his victory. To prove his skills in the field of peace, he restored the Boghd Khan to the throne and disinfected the city sewers. Then he embarked on a sequence of reforms, which helped to turn the picturesque and dangerous capital into the soulless place it has remained since. But positive results came from some of his ideas. He introduced paper currency, built bridges and arranged a public transport system. He founded a library of religious texts and opened schools where Mongols could study their culture.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 20, 2006, 1:32pm

Quote:

I start that thread with few pics:

I think first pic must be this way

He is wearing Mongol coat (=Deel). 8-)

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 20, 2006, 10:39pm

Quote:

Quote:

I start that thread with few pics:

I think first pic must be this way

He is wearing Mongol coat (=Deel). 8-)

You are right;) See coloured pic;)

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 21, 2006, 2:43pm

[image]

Very nice flag! A Horse shoe placed up like Mongol moon, on yellow color. I guess yellow symbolize Mongolian Buddism. At that time Yellow Buddism was dominant -Mongols call "Yellow religion".
Victory was important so he didn`t care about religion (right/wrong true or not) like The Great Khaan. Wise ppl have 2 religions. One for idiology & one for yourself.
For example : Me Buddist -I want peace. I don`t want eternal battle with good & evil.

But If I`m really bad I ask Tengri to help. When I`m wrestling I ask Mother nature to help. 8-)

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 21, 2006, 3:03pm

Quote:

But If I`m really bad I ask Tengri to help. When I`m wrestling I ask Mother nature to help. 8-)

He said something like "There is no good or bad, neither life or death".

He was Buddhist and Shamanist and in that time victory really was the most important, like it is now.

I also want peace, but truth is that peace comes only with war. But if you have to fight, then fight for good reason.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by ahiskali on Aug 21, 2006, 7:20pm

chono did you entered the tournement this year

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 21, 2006, 7:51pm

I do believe that he(=Baron Ungern) was the true Messenger of Tengri =led by Tengri.

Bogda Gegeen(=Lord Enlightened) was unique person. He was the last king(=Khaan) of Mongols. But he wasn`t a descendant of The Great Khaan. Instead he was a foreigner! -A Tibetian priest. I heard that Manchu Khaan sent (as spy) him to control Mongols, declaring him The Mongolian Buddism Leader(=Pope). So he had almost limitless power in Ar Mongolia. I guess he came to Mongolia in young age.
[image]

Bogda Gegeen Javzandamba Khagaan
[image]

Hospitality & kindness of Mongols made him a Mongol. Manchu almost became Chinese.
http://202.179.0.110/phpBB2/files/manj_h....j_baina_184.jpg
(criminal againt Manchu rule used to die by horrible torture)
He led successful revolt against Manchu in 1911. Mongolia become almost(=fully) independant & He became a Khagaan. Outnumbered but strong Mongol army led by 2 famouse generals rode untill The Great Wall & stoped.
[image]

(one of his Generals Manlai Van Damidansuren -he was arrested later by chinese & died standing in prison A TRUE HERO!)
They rode in lightning speed. It is said that every temple were preying for victory. Also before going battle Mongols prepared a curse on Manchu. I heard that one of Generals offered to Bogda Gegeen "-What if we take Beijin? We just need a lot of bullets!" So Bogda Gegeen asked White Khagaan(=Russian Tsar) for supply. He refused, even more he ordered him to pull off his army!. Russia & China descided to make Ar Mongol autonomy of China. Russia takes Buryat. China takes Inner Mongolia. Bogda Gegeen had no option. He just said "Wait my children, our time will come."
(Then Tengri takes his action & makes whole world messy, Russian Tsar (is killed) & Manchu king both loses their power.)
When real Chinese took power over Manchu. They invaded Mongolia with 10000 men & makes Bogda Gegeen to bow to Chinese president. Bogda Gegeen was still saying "-Wait my children". Some Mongols asked Red Russians for help. But they refused because it was not useful them to fight againt Chinese who also enthroned their king. I mean Red Russians & Chinese were on one side =same.
Then a letter came "A Noble Russian Knight wanted to enter the country & he was asking to clean it from it`s enemies"
Bogda Gegeen said "The hun(=person) I was, waiting for, has come".(Yes yes he was one of the few who could tell the future!).
Then he(=Baron Ungern) came & did all the good things that Verinenparoni said -maybe he used bit savage ways.

(I end my post here! continue later if there is something left 8-)

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 21, 2006, 7:54pm

Quote:

chono did you entered the tournement this year

I heard a fairy tale about a hero who took off his boot to defeate a Monster. He took power directly from earth(=Mother Earth). Monster was also naked!

(Grandpa told me).

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 22, 2006, 4:41am

Quote:

http://www.answers.com/topic/roman-ungern-von-sternberg

Here is some article, but I don't trust that 100% at all...

It includes many wrong claims.

Let me add more my opinion :

Quote:

Ungern von Sternberg�s army comprised a mixture of Russian troops, the Transbaikal Cossack Host, and Buryat tribesmen who plundered the Whites' supply trains as often as those of the Reds.

Well..yes! Buryats were doing their best killing all foreigners. hehehe...

Quote:

He began to pursue an idea of restoring the Qing Dynasty to the Chinese throne, then uniting Far-Eastern nations under it.

False! He had an idea to unite all Buddist using Dalai Lama XIII & begin the legendary War of Shambal. The centre of his Empire would be Tibet or Mongolia not China. Because it seemed easy to control Mongols & Tibetians with their religion. For Chinese they didn`t considered Dalai Lama as Holy man.

Quote:

Ungern von Sternberg's troops slaughtered Jews whenever they encountered them

My family knows one Jew!(=Mother`s friend) He took a Mongol wife & live in Mongolia -I don`t know about his job, I guess work with a lot of money. He seemed nice person. hehehe..
I heard that, Mongols had to pay much money to Jew & Chinese tradesmen. Baron killed them & took their money. Mongols found it helpful! hehehe...

Quote:

Ungern von Sternberg was declared to be a Mahakala incarnation by the Dalai Lama XIII.

Mahakala is God of War who sits on mountain of skulls & drinks from river of blood.

Quote:

Before his execution, Ungern von Sternberg was said to have chewed up his Cross of St. George medal in order to prevent it from falling into the hands of the sacrilegious communists.

I guess not only his cross also ring of The Great Khaan. I heard that Bogda Gegeen gave the ring of The Great Khaan!? saying : "My God of War! U(=your spirit) will not die, U will return in more powerful form"=Adolf Hitler I guess.!? 8-)

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by admin on Aug 22, 2006, 9:03am

Adolf Hitler was already a grown-up man by that time

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 22, 2006, 2:21pm

Cannot be Hitler, because Hitler was totally Bavarian (Austrians are mostly Bavarians), but Ungern had much Eastern-blood. Don't forget that he had alot of Finnic blood too (Estonian), so his new form could not be in man who had no connections to us.

Maybe Himmler, because Himmler had some similar ideas actually and Himmler was Baltic-Prussian and partly Lithuanian-Tatar.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Aug 23, 2006, 12:44am

those are really nonsentical claims. Ungern-Sternberg was 100% NOT Hun and what is your claim he wa partly Estonian? and i can assure you Himmler was 100% Catholic Bavarian, there was nothing Baltic-Prussian (=Protestant) about him and he was 100% NOT Lithuanian-Tatar...

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 23, 2006, 1:13am

Quote:

those are really nonsentical claims. Ungern-Sternberg was 100% NOT Hun and what is your claim he wa partly Estonian? and i can assure you Himmler was 100% Catholic Bavarian, there was nothing Baltic-Prussian (=Protestant) about him and he was 100% NOT Lithuanian-Tatar...

One of Ungern's ancestor was member of Huns royal family, and remember that Huns ruled large area so of course they left their blood there.

Sternberg means Star-Mountain (T�htm�gi in Estonian, T�htivuori in Finnish) and in Baltic Sea areas that was old Shamanic-family. Those crusaders who came here melt quite quickly to local population, so Ungern had Estonian blood.

What researches you have about Himmler?

Baltic-Prussians are not Germanics, but Baltics (Related to Finnics also). How can you be sure that Himmler was not partly Lithuanian-Tatar? Bavarians usually not look like him...

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 23, 2006, 6:58am

Quote:

Adolf Hitler was already a grown-up man by that time

In Buddist way human borns again & again.
But GOD spirit=Burkhan is also a spirit that travels -not stays in one place. Ppl prey to call it. They sometimes enter human bodies. These humans will get power over others.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 23, 2006, 1:38pm

Hey guys! Do you know that 14th Dalai Lama is right now(visiting) here in Mongolia!? Compare to Cristian Pasters(-?) he doesn`t promise miracles! hehehe...
Russia always refused to welcome Dalai Lama because of China -I think Russia is weak. Compare to Russia, Mongols are (fully) economically dependant from China, but Mongols don`t care! If Dalai Lama wishes Mongols gladly welcome him. Mongols give huge attention to religions. (Even Feng shui is getting popular!

)

Back to Topic!
Ask any Mongolian Buddist who is Baron Ungern or Adolf Hitler!
-They all will answer "Hargis bachka!"="Savage dude!", maybe some might say like me "-actually, he was a good guy!".

However ask any Cristian Mongol!
-I think U know the answer! -AntiCrist. Bastard..etc

The point is if Baron didn`t enter Mongolia, Red Russians wouldn`t help Mongols. Today Ar Mongolia could be one of Chinese colonies. He had a key role in Mongolian history.(-will of Tengri!?

)

OR!
Maybe Dalai Lama XIII used him as chess piece!? He just needed any commander of White Russians to enter Mongolia.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 23, 2006, 6:38pm

Quote:

The point is if Baron didn`t enter Mongolia, Red Russians wouldn`t help Mongols. Today Ar Mongolia could be one of Chinese colonies. He had a key role in Mongolian history.(-will of Tengri!?

)

He also kicked chinese out from your capitol city.

Well, I don't think that chinese warlords or guomindang could not manage to conquer Mongolia, but after WWII maybe would happened same as Tibet and East-Turkestan...

My question is that why christian Mongolians are against him so much?

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Aug 23, 2006, 9:24pm

Quote:

One of Ungern's ancestor was member of Huns royal family, and remember that Huns ruled large area so of course they left their blood there.

nonsense. no German noble family can trace back their roots further than 13th century...

Quote:

Sternberg means Star-Mountain (T�htm�gi in Estonian, T�htivuori in Finnish) and in Baltic Sea areas that was old Shamanic-family. Those crusaders who came here melt quite quickly to local population, so Ungern had Estonian blood.

false. Sternberg means star-mountain in GERMAN because he was of German descendance. Germans, especially those of the nobility never mixed with natives. nobles don't even mix with non-nobes.

Quote:

What researches you have about Himmler?

Baltic-Prussians are not Germanics, but Baltics (Related to Finnics also). How can you be sure that Himmler was not partly Lithuanian-Tatar? Bavarians usually not look like him...

you can read everywhere that Himmler was born in Munich and was of catholic faith. what the hell are you even talking about Prussians and Tatars??

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 24, 2006, 12:09am

Quote:

nonsense. no German noble family can trace back their roots further than 13th century...

Yes they can.

Quote:

false. Sternberg means star-mountain in GERMAN because he was of German descendance. Germans, especially those of the nobility never mixed with natives. nobles don't even mix with non-nobes.

I know what it means in german. For example here Finnish noble-families took swedish names, when crusaders conquered country, so naturally they did same in Estonia, when crusaders smashed that area (german names though). Yes, originally his family had German blood, but that melt away.

Other example are Hohenzollern. They were originally German, but they mixed with Prussians, so Wilhelm II was only few % German anymore.

Quote:

you can read everywhere that Himmler was born in Munich and was of catholic faith. what the hell are you even talking about Prussians and Tatars??

Yes, he was born in Munich, but what means where you have born?

About Catholicism: Most Original-Prussians are Catholics (actually just belong that church).

Prussians are not Germanics, but Baltics and genetically near of Finno-Ugrics.

(Maybe that's why Germany have been strong only when Prussians had led it

)

And about Tatars: There lives Tatars in Baltic states, and have lived over hundred year.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 24, 2006, 1:20pm

Quote:

My question is that why christian Mongolians are against him so much?

I would say they are not against him but against Buddism.
Because he is a Buddist hero -but there is no Buddist Holy Images of him still... Cristianity is trying get powerful in Mongolia -mostly Korean curches. They (will use any mistakes) claim that Buddism gave nothing to Mongolian ppl & their leaders were dumb ppl -it is because : if a family has more than 2 sons one of them become a Lama(=priest, monk), mostly dumb ones become Lama. (I know that ppl who don`t follow their traditions become Cristians & poor ppl. Noble families do follow their traditions.)
Remember! Ungern von Sternberg was declared to be a Mahakala incarnation by the Dalai Lama XIII -The argument is he was defeated, so it seems like Mahakala(God of war) is weak(=false) god...etc.

I can order a holy image of him if I have a money -I mean I can ask a god painter Lama to create a holy image of him, it is possible if U have good money!. It is allowed to worship to any kind of God if it is created & made life(=Aravnailah -U can understand it as "to Purify", they read preys to call the spirit) in Buddist temple & if U can handle it`s power -Mongolian Buddists think that some gods just can kill U. Imagine I have a holy image of Ungern at home! -maybe I can get mad, who knows.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 24, 2006, 1:33pm

Quote:

Quote:

My question is that why christian Mongolians are against him so much?

When I get student-loan, I want to buy that one.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 24, 2006, 1:36pm

Quote:

When I get student-loan, I want to buy that one.

I said I haven`t.
U can order one in Buddist Temple.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 24, 2006, 1:43pm

Quote:

Quote:

When I get student-loan, I want to buy that one.

I said I haven`t.
U can order one in Buddist Temple.

I know that you have not.

Well, I should contact to Finnish-Mongolian society. Maybe they can order easily and give informations.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Aug 24, 2006, 10:23pm

Quote:

Yes they can.

there are no genealogical records left from earlier periods. to claim that he was of Hun origin is either ignorance or propaganda.

Quote:

that's not true. German nobles are not like Finnish nobles. von Sternberg family originates from Austria, there is nothing Estonian about them.

Quote:

Other example are Hohenzollern. They were originally German, but they mixed with Prussians, so Wilhelm II was only few % German anymore.

Hohenzollern castle is just a couple of kilometers away from me, i have visited the castle really often and i can tell you a big deal about the genealogical background of the Hohenzolelrn family and ic an assure you 100% that Hohenzolelrn family is 100% NOT Prussian. Hohenzolerln family of Prussia belongs to the Frankonian line which originally ruled as counts over N�rnberg castle when they were appointed by the Emperor to rule Brandenburg. Brandenburg eventually acquired the duchy of Prussia from Poland and because it was outside teh borders of the HRE it was possible to make it a kingdom. Brandenburg was only an electorate and couldn't become a kingdom because the empeor was als king of germany and there was no possibility to create another kigndom within germany. therefore, Elector Frederick III. of Brandenburg managed to make Prussia a kingdom and then styled himself King of Prussia and all of the lands of the Hohenzollern were then known as Prussia but baltic Prussia in fact was only a really small part of the whole country. Hohnezollern family is of course not Swabian because all noble families marry with pricnesses of other royal houses, Wilhelm II for example was grandson of teh BRitish Queen Victoria. but i can assure you the Hohenzolelrn family did 100% NEVER marry any native Prussians. not to mention that they never were Prussian in the first place.

Quote:

Yes, he was born in Munich, but what means where you have born?

for you it maters a lot apparently, otherwise you wouldn't claim that reputable German noble families were Baltic or Estonian! Himmler was 100% catholci bavarian and Baltic Germans were all Protestants after the Reformation.

what you say is complete nonsense, it would be like claiming Nadir Shah was Persian just because he ruled Iran! :-X

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by admin on Aug 24, 2006, 10:45pm

It would be nice if we would keep our respectful style just like we did always in this forum

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 24, 2006, 11:59pm

Quote:

It would be nice if we would keep our respectful style just like we did always in this forum

You are right.

Though it would be boring if everyone just would agree about everything, but main thing is that debate should stay civilized and polite.

I'll answer to Temujin when I can concentrate better (Night is not the best time to write debate-things.

) and have more time...

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 25, 2006, 1:21pm

I heard that he was followed by famouse Cossack Atamans(=Bosses?).

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Aug 25, 2006, 3:08pm

Quote:

I heard that he was followed by famouse Cossack Atamans(=Bosses?).

Yes, Grigori Semjonov, Ataman of Trans-Baikal Cossacks, was his friend and in start of civil war they worked together.

Semjonov was half-Burjat, btw.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Aug 25, 2006, 8:27pm

in fact many famous Cossack leaders were ethnic Germans, such as generals Tettenbron and Benkendorff in Napoleonic Wars & generals Wrangel and Ungern-Sternberg during Russian Civil War. I might make some posts about Cossacks soon but next week i will be in Turkey.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Aug 28, 2006, 7:08am

Quote:

Thank you for the info

He seems to be a mad-man. What do you think?

Well..yes. I think there is a little difference between Crazy man & Genius.
The crazyness of Baron Ungern & Adolf Hitler was they were in hurry. They hurried very much.
Baron Ungern did not finish it job in Mongolia -I mean it didn`t conqured it whole & didn`t become powerful enough. He just hurried collect Mongol troops (he used force) & went to fight with Reds.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Sept 3, 2006, 4:00am

Quote:

More about me:
-I smoke and drink

I think U better to stop drinking because Baron Ungern hated drinkers. At his time our capital city was full of drunken ppl. I heard he was throwing them into cold waters of Tuul river.(=river located in south).

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 3, 2006, 3:55pm

Quote:

Quote:

More about me:
-I smoke and drink

Well, drinking is quite big problem here.

Truth is that Helsinki is the only capitol city in EU where you can see streets full of drunken people in every night.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by horka on Sept 7, 2006, 2:14pm

Quote:

That terror was not against Mongolian people, but against harmful minorities like jews, chinese (What those nations did in Mongolia anyway?).

Quote:

Do you find this statements of yours amusing?
Yes indeed the most easy and handy is to slaughter defenceless people. Cowards do that . And cowards are always defeated.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 8, 2006, 12:45pm

Cowards?

What I know, Mongolia (And generally every Uralic-Altaic nations) has always been strong when they had strong leader, who did not afraid to use force and violence.

Genghis used those too and what he did? He built the biggest Empire in Euaasia ever and united his people and made them to feel greatness.

Yes, Ungern slaughtered enemies of Mongolian people, and maybe it was brutal, but I don't condemn that.

My own country got independence after Civil War, where wwe smashed those traitors who were against Independent Finland, and if we would not slaughtered those, then Finland would be now part of russia.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Sept 8, 2006, 12:49pm

Quote:

Do you find this statements of yours amusing?
Yes indeed the most easy and handy is to slaughter defenceless people. Cowards do that . And cowards are always defeated.

Hmm...
Horka, horka, horka!?..

-sounds like child or girl name!

(what does it mean?)

He lost the war. But it doesn`t mean he is a coward. Leader is not a coward. Ppl can say anything about losers.
He slaughtered some innocent like ppl. But it doesn`t mean he is a coward. -maybe a Terrorist. Well..ofcourse Terrorists always lose. But Terrorist is not a coward.

He killed Jews. Maybe he was a racist. But for me he just followed the Bible way. We all know that in Bible story jews are described as traidors. Cristians call Adolf Hitler as "AntiCrist" but he just followed what was "Right" in Bible.

Maybe Baron was a crazy man, but Baron also was high in moral(=a man of honor). 8-)

COWARD
I call ppl who "disact" as "cowards".
-last part of word "Coward" is "-ard". In Mongolian lang word "Ard" means "ppl", also it means "in the back". Cowards are ppl who stay in the back. Still our forum has many "Cowards".
-Please post your photos!!!
Being shy is also Cowardness. 8-)

-Btw why don`t U post your photo!?

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by horka on Sept 8, 2006, 7:01pm

Quote:

Quote:

Do you find this statements of yours amusing?
Yes indeed the most easy and handy is to slaughter defenceless people. Cowards do that . And cowards are always defeated.

Hmm...
Horka, horka, horka!?..

-sounds like child or girl name!

-Btw why don`t U post your photo!?

It seems you have quite limited views on christian religion.
There is no such a thing written in the Bible which urges,tells christians to kill jews. The writers of the Bible were jews,the founders of this religion were jews.
Can you imagine Jesus leading an army?
I rephrase: Can you imagine Budha leading an army?

Horka in the Hungarian language had the meaning of general.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Sept 9, 2006, 7:39am

Quote:

It seems you have quite limited views on christian religion.

-Maybe!

maybe I don`t like new things.

Quote:

There is no such a thing written in the Bible which urges,tells christians to kill jews.

Ofcourse there is no such written things. But most mortals in the past understood the Bible story like "Jews betrayed the Lord, it is right to punish them".(U know cartoon "South Park"! -Oh my god they`ve killed Jesus!!! -Bastards!) I think U know that Bible was rewritten again & again, -still perfected.

Quote:

The writers of the Bible were jews,the founders of this religion were jews.

Yes founders of early Cristianity was Jews. They wrote the story of Jesus & his ideas. But the real creator of Bible, ppl who mixed, used what was useful (from old gospels?) were Romans(=citizen of Rome) -I would say Roman Emperor claimed himself second man after Jesus(=Pope? is it Papa?=father) or Living God.

Early Cristianity was for Jews only, with strict traditions. Some guy changed it & made it for everyone. I don`t think Jesus spoke of Churches, it was Roman idea.

Quote:

Can you imagine Jesus leading an army?
I rephrase: Can you imagine Budha leading an army?

Well...

I can imagine it easly.

An army of believers I guess.

Quote:

Horka in the Hungarian language had the meaning of "General".

OK!

I didn`t knew

, that`s my bad.

If U introduced yourself in page "General Board"-"Introduce yourself", I`m sure it wouldn`t happen.

So U are Hungarian.

I heard, before Cristianity Hungarians were shamanists(=Tengrists!?

) & used to put traveling Cristian priests into wooded barrel and throw it to river, saying "-If U spoke truth, surely your God will help!".-Tell me! was there any survived priest?

Back to Topic!!! 8-)

Baron was fighting against ppl without god. Red Russians said something like :
"We don`t need religion we need science, we don`t need Tsar(=king) we need Socialism."
Baron lost a war. But I can Say/Admit that some powerful spirit wanted to make Russians religious again. Adolf Hitler was the mess-enger(Mess + anger = Messenger LoL

). When Moscow was nearly at siege, Stalin ordered to open the Churches. He needed some Godly help there.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 17, 2006, 12:28am

I heard about PC game where you can play WWII and one option is Mongolian Empire ruled by Ungern Khan.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by anda on Sept 17, 2006, 2:05am

Quote:

My question is that why christian Mongolians are against him so much?

I don't think Mongolian christians express their opinion in any historical questions different than main stream opinion. We are just same Mongolian. Mostly youths and children, emerging educated young people prefer to take care of their faith and spreading the good news.

I agree with Bor Chono that all documented facts reveal that Baron Ungern had some mental problem. He did very crusial role in XX century history of Mongols.

He was so brutal that his Russian commanders escaped from him. His right hand man Sipylo (Cipailo) was one sadist dude.

Now there are still open question of his treasury that he took from Bogd Khaant Mongol State. Some say , Traesury of Baron Ungern is stil hidden somewhere in Mongolia

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 17, 2006, 11:35am

Well, those what now are called mental problems were once signs of Holy Man.

In many cultures Shaman looks once like he would have mental problems, but that is just part of process.

What was Sipylo's ethnicity, btw?

Also can you tell something about Burjatian Prince Djam Bolon who was also his followers...

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Sept 17, 2006, 12:49pm

Quote:

I heard about PC game where you can play WWII and one option is Mongolian Empire ruled by Ungern Khan.

Can U tell tha name of that game!

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 17, 2006, 1:49pm

Quote:

Quote:

I heard about PC game where you can play WWII and one option is Mongolian Empire ruled by Ungern Khan.

Can U tell tha name of that game!

I'll ask my friend. He told me about that few days ago.

I don't play so much.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Sept 18, 2006, 9:42pm

check this for the game:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Storm_%28PC%29
http://www.ironstorm.com/

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 21, 2006, 3:18pm

Quote:

Well, those what now are called mental problems were once signs of Holy Man.

Any Mongol who can answers to those questions?

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Oct 23, 2006, 5:18pm

I`ve just noticed that these two pics looked alike!

I mean look at the forehead & eyes.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by admin on Oct 23, 2006, 11:33pm

One more similarity: they were both mad

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Oct 24, 2006, 1:34am

Who is that other man? :-[

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Oct 25, 2006, 3:35am

Quote:

Who is that other man? :-[

Man! don`t U know!? The other one is young Mussolini :-*

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Oct 25, 2006, 1:40pm

Quote:

Quote:

Who is that other man? :-[

Man! don`t U know!? The other one is young Mussolini :-*

Heh, he is not worthy of knowing.

Difference between him and Ungern is that, though both were mad or crazy, Ungern was genius and smart, Mussolini was idiot.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by admin on Oct 25, 2006, 10:48pm

Hahaha yes, that is very true

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by ahiskali on Oct 25, 2006, 10:56pm

and don't forget a fashist

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Oct 26, 2006, 1:47am

Quote:

and don't forget a fashist

Well, Ungern was not Fascist.

Fascism was only Italian ideology actually, made by Mussolini.

Ungern was racist against some ethnic groups, but Mussolini was not racist actually, except against Tirol Germans.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Oct 26, 2006, 3:25am

Did U know that everyone can become a racist

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Oct 26, 2006, 4:01am

Quote:

Did U know that everyone can become a racist

Well, Mussolini made his race-laws just 1938 for being more friendly to Hitler.

And his lover Clara petacci was jew, btw... So I think that he was not ever antisemitist actually. Somekind of racist maybe part of his life.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Oct 27, 2006, 12:42am

About racism:

Person who plays the piano is called the pianist, so why person who drives rally in races is not called to racist.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Dec 8, 2006, 6:20am

This episode of Steppe Park was already ready :

LOL

-I hope our Bloody Baron & Ataman stop quarrel about Ungern Khan`s root/origin. And work together!

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by admin on Dec 8, 2006, 11:10am

Oh LOL you're great!

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Dec 9, 2006, 2:01am

That was the best.

Thank you Chono.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Dec 9, 2006, 6:58pm

LOL

nice...

BTW, Cossack trousers are usually blue with red stripe

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Dec 10, 2006, 6:28am

Quote:

LOL

nice...

BTW, Cossack trousers are usually blue with red stripe

I note that!

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Dec 30, 2006, 12:30pm

Maybe Horka was right! I don`t know enought about Jews. So I shouldn`t speak bad about them!

But :
Even here in Mongolia I hear bad things about them. Some ppl say that when U speak with a jew they try to make U a low class ppl & say that they are very inteligent & high class ppl.
Also :
The Cristianity! is full of Jew stories(=their history). I mean I don`t care how jews lived & how their god helped them. I`m more interested in own culture & gods.(Surely every nation has old stories.) Survival history of my ancestors. I don`t understand why many young Mongols want to hear about Jew stories & their god.

(-that`s all I wanted to say.

)

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Feb 5, 2007, 2:11pm

I guess Mussolini did say one wise word :
"Legends have power to control mass"

Back to topic :
I found a wonderful short newspaper story about Noyan Ungern :

("Unuudur" newspaper 02/02/2007 friday)
BARON UNGERN & 2th of February.
(I will translate soon

)

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Feb 5, 2007, 3:07pm

Interesting.

I really wait translations.

Thank You.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Feb 7, 2007, 3:47pm

WORDS Under the picture of Baron :
Baron Ungern accepted Yellow sect Mongolian Buddism, wore Otgo Djins & yellow silk Deel, this wasn`t for show or some kind of masked ball as widely thought.

(My bad translation of 4 important parts.

)

1.When Halha Mongolia was plundered by gamin(=capitalist/militarist chinese army), when Mongol army gave up their weapons, reliable white Khaan`s Ruusia became Red. Those Reds allied with gamin & the hope for independence was almost gone. Who was Baron Ungern? who miracly resummened the ulus & rebuilt our home.

2.Writer D.Namdag remembered proudly, how Baron communicated with Mongols in Huree(=Bogda Khaan`s Mongolia`s capital) :
"....then Baron Ungern introduces himself in Mongolian/lang & continued speak in Mongolian!"
Tell me, during soviet`s regime how many? from thousands of Russian educators spoke in Mongolian? Personaly I don`t remember any.

3.However,the person who we used to call savage, Baron Ungern, played a unique role in independence of Mongolia & in Mongolian history, because of that age`s political situation & by the destiny.

4.Let`s change this historical unfairness, like he rebuilt or home 86 years ago, we should rebuilt his honor. Time has come for Baron Ungern to take his rightfull place in Mongolian history.

Personaly I always knew that Baron was mis-understood.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Feb 7, 2007, 9:49pm

He really was misunderstood, but good that now people wants to admit mistakes of history.

He was cruel sometimes and crazy sometimes, but those does not always mean that you are evil sadistic murderer and imperialist and occupator.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Sept 6, 2007, 3:00pm

Why Ungern Khan is important for Temujin!?

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Sept 6, 2007, 4:22pm

do you mean me or Chinggis Khaan?

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 6, 2007, 6:09pm

Quote:

do you mean me or Chinggis Khaan?

;aybe both.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Sept 7, 2007, 12:25pm

Quote:

do you mean me or Chinggis Khaan?

I mean U

Why U were arguing about Ungern Khan`s blood line?

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 7, 2007, 1:08pm

BTW, patriarch of Moscow, Alexey II, is relative of Ungern Khan and Estonian.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Sept 7, 2007, 3:52pm

Quote:

I mean U

Why U were arguing about Ungern Khan`s blood line?

well, would you not argue if a Japanese would claim Chinggis Khaan was Japanese?

Quote:

BTW, patriarch of Moscow, Alexey II, is relative of Ungern Khan and Estonian.

according to wikipedia:

"He was born as Aleksei Ridiger (Russian: Aleksei Mikhailovich Ridiger, Алексей Михайлович Ридигер) in Tallinn, Estonia, to the family of Russian emigrants; he is a descendant of the German Baltic nobility clan of von R�diger, a branch of which adopted Orthodoxy in the 18th century."

there is no mention of Sternberg anyways...

btw, some Estonians also claim Scottish general Barclay de Tolly was Estonian, do you think so too?

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 7, 2007, 6:33pm

Well, I have not ever claimed that Ungern Khan was Finnish. I have said that he was is Estonian/Prussian/Hunnish.

I heard that from my Prussian friend.

Well, wikipedia is not always reliable.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Sept 7, 2007, 7:04pm

he was none of those, von Sternberg noble family was originally from Austria, so he was not even Prussian. also, no modern living person can be traced back to Huns scientifically nor by genealogy.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Sept 10, 2007, 6:29pm

OK! ::)

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Sept 10, 2007, 7:42pm

well, what i wanted to say is, it is not important to fake his background to make him Hun (steppe people). apparently he was able to win symphaties of Mongols at least for some time even though he was foreign.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by verinenparoni on Sept 11, 2007, 2:10pm

Well, if some man from Taiwan can follow his traces from Kungfutse.

If I would fake Ungern background, I would say that he was Finn from Central-Finland lakeside.

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by temujin on Sept 11, 2007, 5:54pm

yes but what evidence is there to assume he was not an Austrian nobleman? the oldest european family can trace back its origin no more than to the 13th century. and Russia had really a lot of Baltic German Generals.

i don't say Huns had no descendants today. i could say i have Hun blood!

but i can't proove it...

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by borchono on Sept 11, 2007, 6:56pm

Quote:

And about Buryat-mixing, I have question to Bor Chono:

Wasn't Ataman Semjonov/Semenov (Leader of Trans-Baikal Cossacks and Ungern Khan's ally) Buryat+Cossack mixture?

Oh my! I didn`t see this question! -sorry for late answer!

I don`t know really! ::)

Re: Ungern Khan
Post by dilisang on Sept 12, 2007, 3:52am

Quote:

i don't say Huns had no descendants today. i could say i have Hun blood!

but i can't proove it...

A Hun does not need to prove anything ...