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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 3, 2006 20:47:37 GMT 3
Ancient Turkic "wolf head" standard found in Northern Kazakstan (7-8 centuries) Wolf is a totemic animal in Kazakstan, and the wolf banners or standards like this were carried into battle by warriors.     A membrane inside wolf's mouth made a piercing "howling" sound when the standard was held aloft while galloping. This color photo is the banner's copy in Astana, Kazakstan. The original standard is in the Hermitage museum in St. Petersburg, Russia.  |
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Post by balamir on Dec 3, 2006 21:51:54 GMT 3
OOOooovvv,grey wolf(Turkish:Bozkurt,Böri,Börü) is may favourite of Turk symbols.
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Post by Atabeg on Dec 3, 2006 21:57:47 GMT 3
I think the banner looks more like a boar head
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 3, 2006 22:04:17 GMT 3
I think the banner looks more like a boar head Are you doubting our ancestors' ability of portraying animals accurately?  |
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Post by aca on Dec 3, 2006 22:10:30 GMT 3
Wow This is great! Is this flag bellow wolf's mouth a real one, or is it just an artist's impression? C'mon, it doesn't look like a boar head (the nose and teeth are too small to be boar's) |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 3, 2006 22:12:56 GMT 3
Thank you very much my dear Shad!
One day I will go to the Hermitage Museum and see the original one.
Dear Atabeg Shad, I also think it looks like a wolf instead of a boar.
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Post by Atabeg on Dec 3, 2006 22:17:48 GMT 3
I just think that the ears are 2 pointy and the tip of the snout to big compared with real wolfs
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Post by aca on Dec 3, 2006 22:21:56 GMT 3
I think in this case the ears play the role of a trumpet.
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Post by Temüjin on Dec 6, 2006 22:05:48 GMT 3
it is a dragon?  |
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Post by aca on Dec 7, 2006 12:49:10 GMT 3
it is a dragon? Dragon has sharp teeth - all of them. Besides, the nose of the animal shown on this standard is typical for mammals.  |
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 7, 2006 19:35:13 GMT 3
This is boar:  This is wolf: |
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 7, 2006 19:47:04 GMT 3
Here's a nice article about the so-called draco (dragon) standard of Sarmatians, Alans, Parthians, and later Romans. www.fectio.org.uk/articles/draco.htm Article says: "The draco Standard was originally developed by the cavalry peoples of the steppes, such as the Sarmatians and the Alans, but also by the Parthians and the Sassanid Persians. It may have been used primarily to determine the wind-direction for the horse archers."As many of the researchers admit, most of the known "dragon" standards look more life wolves/dogs rather than dragons! Sarmatian standard from Trajan's Column:  Article says: "Not all such standards had dragon heads. The one below on the left from Trajan's Column shows the tubular tail with streamers attached. The head looks more like a dog (with ears) than a dragon. "Reconstruction drawing by Gerry Embleton, showing a Sarmatian in Roman service, based on the Chester stele as well as the 'dog' draco from Trajans Column:  Reconstruction drawing by Angus McBride, showing a Parthian 'fish':  The Draco found in Niederbieber, Germany:  Article: "The Roman draco developed into a real dragon, without ears but with scales and a crest. The only fully preserved draco was found in the Limes fortress of Niederbieber in Germany, which dates to the 3rd century."Perhaps originally it was never a dragon at all, but a wolf/dog used by the steppe nomads and Persians. |
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Post by BAWIR$AQ on Dec 7, 2006 19:53:16 GMT 3
Photo of the wolf banner from Hermitage museum (St. Petersburg, Russia):  I am not sure if it is the same banner which was found in Northern Kazakstan, or a different banner (in article it is called "Sassanian" banner from "Perm region" in Urals). This article writes: "It is made of silver and comes from the Government of Perm in Russia. This Sassanian piece of the 7th century A.D. shows a dragon-like head of hybrid ( dog- or wolf-shaped) character with an open mouth and chased embossé decoration. It also has a vertical perforation for a pole. K.V. Trever: Un étendard Sassanide. Musée de l'Ermitage, Travaux du Département Oriental, tome III, Léningrad, 1940, pp. 167=78, Pls. I-II." |
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Post by H. İhsan Erkoç on Dec 7, 2006 20:57:12 GMT 3
Nice pictures!  |
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Post by Temüjin on Dec 7, 2006 21:12:36 GMT 3
I agree, except for the one found in germany, those animal heads looked more like dogs or wolves but those standards are usually refered to as Draco (Dragon) standards... |
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