|  Author | Topic: What happened to the Soghdians? (Read 979 times) |
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|  | What happened to the Soghdians?
« Thread Started on May 9, 2007, 2:31pm » | |
what happend to them , there did they disapear
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|  | Re: what happend to the soghdaianians
« Reply #2 on May 9, 2007, 4:33pm » | |
They did not disappear.
Tajiks, many Uzbeks and Uyghurs are their descendants.
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| | Re: what happend to the soghdaianians
« Reply #4 on May 9, 2007, 5:37pm » | |
how can uzbeks be there decsent , isnt the uzbeks a turkic-mongol nation
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| | Re: what happend to the soghdaianians
« Reply #5 on May 9, 2007, 8:40pm » | |
Uzbek and Uyghur are the historical names of the nomadic tribes. Uzbeks originated from Desht-i Qipchaq and Uyghurs - from Mongolia. For example, Kazaks and the "nomadic Uzbeks" used to be one nation.
When these tribes or at a part of them migrated to the sedentary regions (Uzbeks to Mawarannahr, Uyghurs to Tarim basin), they mixed with the local Soghdians who constituted the majority in towns and other sedentary areas. Even today, the culture and the physical appearance of the sedentary Uzbeks and Uyghurs is very close to the Tajiks, who are also the descendants of Soghdians, than to the nomadic and other Turks like Kazaks, Kyrgyzes, or Turkmens.
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| | Re: What happened to the Soghdians?
« Reply #6 on May 10, 2007, 12:51am » | |
Quote:| Uzbek and Uyghur are the historical names of the nomadic tribes. Uzbeks originated from Desht-i Qipchaq and Uyghurs - from Mongolia. For example, Kazaks and the "nomadic Uzbeks" used to be one nation. |
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so it is thruth that the uzbeks where of kypchak descent,
Quote:| Even today, the culture and the physical appearance of the sedentary Uzbeks and Uyghurs is very close to the Tajiks, who are also the descendants of Soghdians, than to the nomadic and other Turks like Kazaks, Kyrgyzes, or Turkmens |
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I havent seen many uzbeks but the ones that I have seen looks like asiatic looks.
I thought that among the turks in central asia, the turks that looks most caucasuid is the turkmen, look at the turkmen in Iran and compare to the ones in turkmenistan, we look little bit different, the turkmens in Iran look little more cacuasid then the turkmens in turkmenistan,
but in turkmenistan it depends on which region, some regions look like asiatic other cauasuid, enough said,
Turkmens in Iran look little bit like they do among the azeri and anatoliens, thtas becasue we live closer to the persian , and therefor more intermarrigies,
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| | Re: What happened to the Soghdians?
« Reply #7 on May 10, 2007, 12:54am » | |
I dont think the uzbeks are the only one who is mixed with sedentary, we Turkmens say that we are a mix of indo.european nomads, and altaic nomads, the parthians, the massagates and saka,are considered a part of turkmen history, we turkmens beleieve we are a mix of those indo-european and oghuz that came.
what do you kazaks consider yourself
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| | Re: What happened to the Soghdians?
« Reply #8 on May 10, 2007, 7:49am » | |
Uzbegs and Uyghurs are heavily mixed with Iranics but this doesn't show they are Iranic,we musn't forget Iranic peoples like Tajiks look more Turkic than Iranian.Turkic elements who made up modern Uzbegs and Uyghurs are more heavily then other ones.
"we Turkmens say that we are a mix of indo.european nomads, and altaic nomads, the parthians, the massagates and saka"
I don't know any Turkmen who say this,Turkmens are clearly Oghuzic and they have no relation with parthians and indo-europeans.They mixed with them but this never makes a relation.They are just altaic.
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| | Re: What happened to the Soghdians?
« Reply #9 on May 10, 2007, 10:48am » | |
Again, it's a very touchy subject of so-called "Turkification". I don't want to talk about it, but it's hard to deny that the
The fact is that the culture and apperance of sedentary Ozbeks is very similar to Tajiks. Uzbek President Islam Karimov even said that Ozbeks and Tajiks are "one nation that speaks two languages".
These sedentary Ozbeks don't have any tribal affiliations, their affiliations are with their cities. On the other hand, nomadic and semi-nomadic Ozbeks (descendants of Turko-Mongolic tribes) still retain their tribal names and have a culture similar to Kazaks, Karakalpaks, and Kyrgyzes.
What do you mean by "Tajiks look more Turkic than Iranian"? How can you "look Turkic"? There're some Asiatic looking Tajiks, but Tajiks are predominantly Caucasoid people. Same with the sedentary city Ozbeks.
Most of the city Ozbeks in Samarqand and Bukhara are more Caucasoid than any Turkmen.
Kazaks are the heavy mixture of Turkic, Mongolic, and Iranic nomadic tribes.
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| | Re: What happened to the Soghdians?
« Reply #10 on May 10, 2007, 10:52am » | |
The law of conservation of energy (energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only be changed from one form to another) can also be loosely applied to the tribes, ethnic groups, nations.
Even though many people are killed during the conquests, many are simply assimilated with the new groups. Old groups break up and new groups are formed.
Therefore, I see the continuation of the sedentary Soghdian tradition and culture, and in part language, in modern Tajiks, many Ozbeks, and Uyghurs.
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| | Re: What happened to the Soghdians?
« Reply #11 on May 10, 2007, 7:48pm » | |
Quote:When these tribes or at a part of them migrated to the sedentary regions (Uzbeks to Mawarannahr, Uyghurs to Tarim basin), they mixed with the local Soghdians who constituted the majority in towns and other sedentary areas. Even today, the culture and the physical appearance of the sedentary Uzbeks and Uyghurs is very close to the Tajiks, who are also the descendants of Soghdians, than to the nomadic and other Turks like Kazaks, Kyrgyzes, or Turkmens[quote]
you mean sart people, I think you know who the sarts are, since the gok turks, there have been a mix of soghdians adn turks in the city,
the sarts are either soghdaian or turk, they are a mix, and speak both languages,
[quote]Uzbek President Islam Karimov even said that Ozbeks and Tajiks are "one nation that speaks two languages". |
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Thats because he is of tajik descent, he is half tajik you know, on his fathers side he is tajik.
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| | Re: What happened to the Soghdians?
« Reply #12 on May 11, 2007, 6:06am » | |
Quote:| Thats because he is of tajik descent, he is half tajik you know, on his fathers side he is tajik. |
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Foremost, he represents all Ozbeks regardless of his own origin.
By saying so, he demonstrated the objective truth - the closeness of Tajiks and sedentary Ozbeks.
If it wasn't true, there would be a great discontent about him. Can you imagine if Saparmurat Turkmenbashy said that Turkmens and Persians were one nation that spoke two languages? No, because it's not true. But it is in the case of Tajiks and many Ozbeks.
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| | Re: What happened to the Soghdians?
« Reply #13 on May 11, 2007, 3:20pm » | |
Quote:| If it wasn't true, there would be a great discontent about him. Can you imagine if Saparmurat Turkmenbashy said that Turkmens and Persians were one nation that spoke two languages? No, because it's not true. But it is in the case of Tajiks and many Ozbeks. |
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first of all I dont give a f**k what saparmurat says, dead or alive, he is not a representantive of turkmenistan, he was a dictator thats different, dictators where ever they are from turkmenistan or uzbekistan doenst represent the country,
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balamir
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| | Re: What happened to the Soghdians?
« Reply #14 on May 16, 2007, 6:29pm » | |
The fact is that the culture and apperance of sedentary Ozbeks is very similar to Tajiks. Uzbek President Islam Karimov even said that Ozbeks and Tajiks are "one nation that speaks two languages".
Uzbegs and Tajiks are similar peoples,that's why their culture is similar.But they are not the same people,just a bit relation and geography.I don't want to talk about the idiot named Islam Karimov.
These sedentary Ozbeks don't have any tribal affiliations, their affiliations are with their cities
This never mean they are not from the origin of ancient Uzbegs.Under some Iranic culture and forgeting their tribal(this "a bit" beacuse of Turkification and mixing) relations,they became far from their own origins(like Turkish).But they are Turks and they have only a little difference from other Turkic peoples.
What do you mean by "Tajiks look more Turkic than Iranian"? How can you "look Turkic"? There're some Asiatic looking Tajiks, but Tajiks are predominantly Caucasoid people. Same with the sedentary city Ozbeks.
Nearly half of the tajiks look more asiatic(Turkic) as ý know and see.There is a Turkic look.There are some physical differences between Turkic peoples,so "Turkic look" is also various.But there is a Turkic look.
I think Turks are cauca-mongoloid.Some of the Turkic peoples look more Mongoloid and some of us look more Caucasoid,this because of genetic elements and the key "HEAVÝLY MÝXÝNG".For example:Turkish people also look more Caucasoid,but this never means they have no genetic relation with the Turks who are more Mongoloid.Like Uzbegs.
Therefore, I see the continuation of the sedentary Soghdian tradition and culture, and in part language, in modern Tajiks, many Ozbeks, and Uyghurs
I have to say that settled Iranic culture is more strong then nomadic culture.When the Turkic peoples settled in Iranic area,they entered under a strong settled culture which belongs to Iranics.These Iranics couldn't be Turkified because of their rooted and heavy culture/identity,but they affected the Turks in area like Uzbegs and Uigurs heavily.
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